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     longears
Member
Username: longears
Post Number: 1
Registered: 11-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 08:54 am: |  
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I'm new to IC and have been exploring its features and the web site - all pretty amazing and good quality.
I'm puzzled and this may be a dumb question - but why can't a P&F chart be put below the price chart (in one of the indicator sections) so it can be viewed & reviewed at the same time? Or can it? An alternative would be to run two copies of CI (I've two monitors).
regards
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colin_twiggs
Member
Username: colin_twiggs
Post Number: 2639
Registered: 09-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:04 am: |
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longears,
The P&F chart does not use time as the x-axis chart scale as with bar charts or candlesticks. The same applies to Equivolume charts. For that reason it is not practical to display them below the price chart.
However, your suggestion of running charts on two screens warrants investigation.
Regards, Colin
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msparks
Member
Username: msparks
Post Number: 712
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 01:05 pm: |
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Hi
I have been looking hard at P&F charts and i think they give the clearest view of price movements and offer a quick easy way to set stop loss levels and buy stop orders.
A 2 screen view would be ideal as i keep checking back to the candle chart to compare the P&F.
Can a P&F be used alone to trade stocks ???
The charts sure look like they can be but the 2 or 3 % variation in actual price may cause some problems perhaps.
The P&F seem clearer than weekly charts so 2 or 3 % as in a 2 or 3 box close price pnf chart may be the quickest and best way to manage entry and exits, trends etc.
Does anyone use this method or have any input ???
From the info we can see that the box size changes as a percentage of price withing each range.
So a stock trading at $1 will have a box size of 1c or 1%, but a stock trading at $1.99 will have a box size 1 cent also which is only 0.5%,,, but when price gets to $2 the box size will be 2 cents, or 1% of the price.
Is this correct, this could be quite misleading ???
Perhaps pnf log charts based on pure percentage of price may be best to use ???
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colin_twiggs
Member
Username: colin_twiggs
Post Number: 2641
Registered: 09-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 02:14 pm: |
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msparks,
With stocks ranging in price from 1 cent to $100 we have to introduce steps in order to present meaningful charts. Suggestions as to how to improve the steps/ make them more granular are welcome. The weakness of P&F charts is the loss of round numbers -- important for identifying support and resistance levels.
Regards,
Colin
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 2199
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
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Ahoy Good Admiral
I feel your search for Excellence in P&F charts is admiral
In its present state your P&F are at best Thumbnail
I dearly hope my contribution can help your
Tinkers Taylors Soldiers and Sailors reach the next level in P&F
First of all
The P&F chart should show all of the Course of Sales
Not just the The High and the Low
This will show the TRUE intra-day Support and Resistance Levels with much more accuracy not shown by any other method
Secondly,
A Horizontal Grid must be able to be selected for each and every situation
By price in decimal parts of dollars on the Y axis in equities
By numbers and sometimes hundreds and thousands
EG:
A share like AEX trades in an allowable price limit of 0.001c ATM
A share like ACB trades in an allowable price limit of 0.05C
Other shares may trade at allowable price change of 0.01 c
This is when the going gets really tough with P&F
"The Sublime to the Ridiculous"
All I can do is go back to the start when I used to do them by hand
#1 P&F should show the Course of Sales
#2 then select the best 1 or 2 or 3 Vertical grids
NOT like
Daily Weekly or Monthly
but just another way of looking at things in a strange fashion to clarify the noise
Eg with AEX Under 10c you should be able to draw a chart in a Box Size 0.001c or 0.05c
Later on as the shares get re-rated you may want to then change the y axis
The Box size to 0.05c
The Box size to 0.10c
The Box size to 0.20c
The Box size to 0.40c
etc etc
But always Decimal
Using the latest in the discoveries of 0.000 and the decimal point the rest should be only dictated by the "Y" axis and the size of the graphing page
Indicies are different
A good selection of numerous box sizes should be made available to fit all situations
In conclusion
The P&F should be the best Navigational aid a skipper could ever wish to go to sea with!
Salute and Gods"s Speed
(Message edited by captain_chaza on October 09, 2006)
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 2201
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 07:56 pm: |
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Sorry Ads
I have just re-read my post!! Ouch!
It seems I have once again stuffed up with the decimal point!
I think you would have to be a Rhodes Scholar or a Genius not to stuff up as many times as this simple Captain has on the decimal point
Just another one of those simple mistakes with far reaching consequences
Such is life at sea
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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longears
Member
Username: longears
Post Number: 2
Registered: 11-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 09, 2006 - 07:02 pm: |
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msparks - I'd also like to stare and absorb both candlesticks and P&F screens at the same time. They can give different but complementary views. I wouldn't just rely on one or the other - but then I am a novice.
Colin - thanks, the answer is pretty obvious in hindsight. I figure for the moment I'll run up a another instance on the other monitor with VMWare (Virtual Machine)  .
Cap't - thanks. I'll head to shore so I can digest.
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ohkoolnutz
Member
Username: ohkoolnutz
Post Number: 309
Registered: 10-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 03:49 pm: |
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I am quite impressed with the idea of (x) tick views.
Go to http://www.prorealtime.com/en/
Click "new features" on the left side of the page
Click on "(x) tick views"
It's basically a price chart with integrated turnover at each price point.
---
ohk
Lies, Damn Lies and Technical Analysis
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colin_twiggs
Member
Username: colin_twiggs
Post Number: 2643
Registered: 09-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 07:52 pm: |
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Charles,
#1 Follow course of sales -- I agree that this is best but requires tick data to achieve this.
#2 Box sizes 1 to 20 are available
#3 Box sizes are stepped to cope with varying price ranges. Possibly we should offer an unstepped option as well -- for those who prefer manually resetting box sizes.
Regards,
Colin
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 2205
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 08:51 pm: |
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Ahoy Admiral Col'n
In reply
"#1 Follow course of sales -- I agree that this is best but requires tick data to achieve this."
I am very pleased you agree with me!!
Since nobody has time to think during the day anyway
20 min delayed data should be cheap?
Problem Solved!
As to
"#2 Box sizes 1 to 20 are available"
I am not too sure what you mean
Do you mean 1c to 20c?
With regard to
"#3 Box sizes are stepped to cope with varying price ranges. Possibly we should offer an unstepped option as well -- for those who prefer manually resetting box sizes."
Personally, I prefer the manual reset box and would avoid the stepped version like the plague
Please Refer to the P&F version MRE from her launch
As in every Indicator I think you should always offer a "Copybook Default Setting" for Disclaimer reasons but allow for individual manual set ups for the more advanced or adventurous
Salute and Gods' Speed on your search for
"The Most Incredible Charts of Them All"
PS You may have to offer the High-Low Thumbnail P&F
as all the data you need may not be readily available in some instruments
Such is Life at Sea !
(Message edited by captain_chaza on October 10, 2006)
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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colin_twiggs
Member
Username: colin_twiggs
Post Number: 2644
Registered: 09-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 12:57 pm: |
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Box sizes are incremented according to price. The table did not copy correctly, so I will have to direct you to the P&F page for further details.
Regards,
Colin
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msparks
Member
Username: msparks
Post Number: 714
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 05:50 pm: |
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Hi Colin
The question remains
Can a P&F be used alone to trade stocks on a weekly or longer term system ???
(personally, looking at the charts i cannot see why they could not be used exclusively, 2 or3 box close or H&L)
Perhaps if the VALUE of box size changes, (due to the steps or increments), the x or the o may change colour to a different shade of green or red so we know there will need to be a larger move to place an x or o ? OR the box size (cents)is displayed when hovering mouse over ???
If two windows could be viewed at the same time, like the normal chart and the pnf perhaps , things may become clearer ?
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 2207
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 06:16 pm: |
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Ahoy Admiral Col'n Able-Seaman OKH and SCO Sparksie
IMHO
No chart/map is a "Stand Alone"
However the Orthodox P&F (Course of Sales )shows information not available in any other format
That is its Beauty!!!!!
(Which other Chart displays Intra-Day History?)
long after that day has been forgotten?
How many times have you missed out on contingency orders based on the Common H, L, Open & Close
How many times have those Greedy Landlubbers tricked you into thinking these were the real Pivot points?
Sometimes/Mostimes the exact pivot point can be found in the Intra-day Data and can be found closer to any one of the Four Pretenders
Only by following the Course of Sale P&F can this be gleaned!
Wouldn't it be nice to go back in time and investigate where the next Intra-Day Gap will occur? What happened in the past Etc Etc Etc
No other chart can give you such an insight at times!
Yep, it misses out on Volume but a simple Volume check/filter will quickly identify whether the craft is big enough for you and your family
As a rule of thumb I blindly assume that any member of the AOX and ASX300 have enough volume for me and my family and only check the other 1000 sails as necessary
This saves a lot of time
There are also lots of theories on Target Setting/Counting/Projecting with The Orthodox P&F
I am not familiar with the Admirals version but as you can see in my Picks of the Week I am experimenting
What I have found Admiral so far is that the change of scale on the Y axis is Over-used to a point of Abuse and Dangerous
Apologies Admiral
BUT This is IMHO and you asked for honest opinions and feedback
I feel there is no need to have so many un-elected price changes on the “Y” axis
The ASX have their ideas of fair auction fluctuations
0.001c fluctuations/box to the limit of $0.10c /share then
0.005c fluctuations/box to the limit of $2.00/share and then
0.01c fluctuations/box for everything dearer (ie Above $2.00)
I know it seems really silly having investors fighting over a cent with shares like PPT CSL BHP and RIO over a cent but this happens
The Absolute Greed shown here by Landlubbers waiting for a ONE/TWO cent Bargain is mind-boggling
I hope I never get in the situation where I have to Buy on the Cheap
Sorry Sparksie that I can't help you with the Short/Long Term separation of a Plan of Action
As you Know I only use the expression "Long Term" for excuses only a mother would believe
It has always worked for me since time began
Having said that I must say I too often get caught out
However The only difference being I admit to myself I have been caught out in a high % Retracement or Un-wanted and Un-Welcomed so-called 50%-61% Correction
A good set of P&F BOX choices is all that is necessary to give you Far Away Perspectives and Close Up views
5c, 10c, and 20c P&F box settings will show amazing detail on the Temperament of these Heavyweights
1c 2c 3c and 4c P&F can then be used for Close- up views or used on the Blue, Green and Pink sheets
Sorry Admiral
But IMHO
I find all those "Forced" Scale changes on the "Y" axis distorts the charts and my Brain
(Would you ever think of distorting a Bar/Candlestick chart in such a way)
I hope I have explained why I think the
Course of Sale P&F would be
"The Most Incredible Charts of Them All"
Salute and God's speed
(Message edited by captain_chaza on October 12, 2006)
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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