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     zorba
Member
Username: zorba
Post Number: 119
Registered: 12-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, May 06, 2006 - 12:46 am: |  
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G'day All
First off - great win to the Australian rugby league side tonight.
Now, regards the ATO, I think you'll find that in any dispute the ATO doesn't have to prove that they are right or that you are wrong. YOU have to prove that you are RIGHT (fibo - correct me if I'm wrong - (if you are with the ATO)).
As the Irishman said, 'Anyone who's not confused here doesn't really understand what's going on'.
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orangeguy
Member
Username: orangeguy
Post Number: 58
Registered: 07-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 01:02 am: |
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Its probably old news, but I just read the SFE is proposing to list CFDs by the 2nd quarter of 2007 on their exchange.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1460
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 01:50 am: |
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http://www.asx.com.au/about/pdf/fact_sheet.pdf
It might become quite fashionable for the big end of town to trade CFD's on the SFE.
What does that mean for the underlying share prices?
What does that mean for the small CFD trader?
I don't see this as a good thing - with the smaller caps so open to manipulation, volatility will be the first thing to increase.
Pity we can't trust the watch-dog, ASIC to weed out the wheeler-dealers.
Don't believe in manipulation of the markets?
Have a look here, or do your own google search for more on this case.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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orangeguy
Member
Username: orangeguy
Post Number: 59
Registered: 07-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 10:33 am: |
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Ingot, sorry for the silly questions, but:
HOw would listing CFDs affect the CFDs of the providers such as CMC and IG? We will still be able to trade through our provider correct? And I would also assume that the CFDs we trade through our provider are not the same contracts as the ones being listed right? So if we keep trading through our provider then we would not be exposed to the manipulation that could happen on the SFE?
Thanks.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1462
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 11:46 am: |
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Thanks for your question Orangeguy - no question is ever "silly".
My concerns with listing CFD's on such an institution as the SFE brings this derivative out of the cold, into the "respectable establishment".
First of all, CMC and IG Markets are not tarred with the same brush.
CMC is a Market Maker, and as such can "spike" you out of a position, even though the underlying price does not go anywhere near the price at which you were stopped-out.
This is in their "fine print" and is justified by how they view orders in the queue. They say that if they have the selling pressure, they can spike their data to reflect their orders, even though the underlying share price never meets that level. Is this what you want? (The question is rhetorical.)
IG markets use the underlying share price on which to base their CFD prices. They GUARANTEE to always match exactly the underlying. No spread, no re-quotes. Your order will be met at the price you state - providing the volume matches the real market.
The entry of SFE into listing this instrument will not affect the ability of the current providers to continue as usual ... though it might be good for competition, and see commissions improve.
Where I believe it will not be good, is in the way the smaller caps with smaller volumes traded, and lower share prices are sitting ducks for manipulation.
Consider just BPT (Beach Petroleum.)
Beach Petroleum closed on Friday at $1.55, with 1,421,768 shares traded. That's a turnover of just $2.2 million for the day. If you had a look at the Nomura case in my previous post, where they spent $600 million to "have a go" you can see where manipulation of BPT trading would be a cakewalk.
Imagine you take a short position on BPT as a CFD for "all the usual FA and TA reasons." When BPT is traded as a CFD on the SFE, much larger positions can be accommodated than can be now, with the current crop of providers.
If someone else took a very large, long position on BPT, on a margin of 5% with SFE, you can see how manipulation would boost their profits. All they would need to do is spend up big on the underlying equity, and for every ten cents the underlying rises, the CFD value rises by $2.00, on that 5% margin.
Nifty eh?
And suddenly your short position is looking very sick indeed. You would, more than ever, need to ensure your stops are in place for EVERY trade.
That's why having SFE involved is not a good thing. We are not talking $10,000 here. There are some incredible punters out there, or should I say "predators" with some very deep pockets, and very shallow ethics.
My concern is that the underlying share prices, on which the CFD is based, would no longer reflect true market supply and demand - at least to the extent it does now.
I can see that trading the bigger caps - ASX TOP 50 for example - might offer some immunity from this manipulation.
I hope this is just paranoia on my part.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 1054
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 02:10 pm: |
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So Ingot [u2 orangeguy]
It's a wrap then on d'Non-Tax line?Like SFE listing cfd's.
The Tax Office would have any dill goin' dMr Blank sayso?
on TOAST.
respectability has a price,palanquin.
Nothing is Impressionable
no matter what or who is laying it out[like an egg] on ya.
DIY R [research)
You bein'a Track boy,Ivan[like horses]may not be aware that a card school can set up anywhere[as in a popular Kaffe even]and they can be playing for Money,all out on the table,and as long as there ain't a per hand charge getting got by what's called d'Organizer,well Ivan that's Legal,like in d'Magna Carta sense, like Ingot
Trust me it's TRUE
Basically it's legal to gamble as long as a House/Bookie/Spiv!!is not taking d'cut,like diddling d'Probabilities.
So What??!! i hear d'muttering BUT CMC d'Market Maker would be RED HOT GOOOONE on a dis-oderley,hey?if cfd were gambling that is.
Just doin a Numbers Racket churning out 20 lines on a Sunday Arvo.
ps- really looking forward to a Reply,palanquin.
later Ivan,rajneeshyfella,u2zoob.
Avatar- PHACOPS{speculator}from the Devonian Period.
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msparks
Member
Username: msparks
Post Number: 492
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 02:18 pm: |
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Ingo
What you have suggested could be happening now anyway ?
Big players manipulating a price and cleaning up on the cfd.
Or even loading up on a cfd shorts with 2 or 3 providers, and then dumping their holding in the actual share.
Like betting in the ring, hitting all the bookies at the same time to get the price before they see other bookies dropping the odds.
The mind boggles at what a very large shareholder could easily do, if using cfds as well.
Would it be illegal ?
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1463
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 03:27 pm: |
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Mark - at the moment there are restrictions on position sizes at some providers. This is particularly so with Limited Risk Accounts (GSLO).
I once tried to open a position of 40,000 VCR (long). I could only get 2 X 20,000 positions, provided I set the GSLO at least 1.5% apart, from memory.
As I have not traded the DMA (Direct Market Access model, I can not speak for this.
Your point is valid, however, as it DOES leave the CFD derivative instrument open for manipulation, purely by reason of the leverage involved, as per my post above.
In your example, the market "dump" could ride along with a sell of the CFD long position, then open a short position, and win as it slides in the opposite direct direction.
Nothing is illegal, until you get caught. Then, if you can afford the Barrister, the fine is piddling, or zero.
If you do a Google on "Nomura" you can find many other cases whereby Nomura are linked to organised crime, the Yakuza in Japan - this is public domain information - not my musings.
Consequently, where do you think they would find a judge in Japan who values justice more than his life, or the life of a member of his family?
How much justice is there in fining Nomura, and its directors such piffling pittances, when they set out to rip off millions of market participants, using $600 million as a tool? Remember, the Indexes are leveraged instruments, so $600 million buys a lot of the Top 5 companies, which move the index.
What was the fine?
350,000 pounds plus costs.
Dug - You've crossed over into cryptic again - but I understand some of it. Stamp duty no longer applies on transactions, but I'm sure the providers are hit with a turnover tax, same as the bookies. Once a tax, always a tax - it's only the name that changes.
I don't have a problem paying legal taxes - But the ATO is still full of BS and double-speak.
They are so up themselves, with their legal-speak, and case studies and precedents, that they can NOT simply say: "All profits on CFD's will/will not be taxed."
Why don't they do that?
Could it be that there are different "interpretations" for the privileged, who are able to pay for "correct" taxation advice for submissions of their returns? Or structure their situation to get around the law?
You would have seen this, Dug. Did you get frustrated when you saw it? The rich structuring assets so that they are/were hidden from assessment? The middle people unable to do it?
Just like Doctors on $200k were able to negative gear to the hilt, artificially lowering their taxable income, and thus qualifying their kids for Austudy (this is true - 1987), but people on a small wage, but earning "too much income" to qualify their kids for Austudy, had to pay up to send their kids to the same educational facilities.
Government for the people, by the people?
Cough! Cough!
Yes, I am happy to pay legal taxes.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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azure
Member
Username: azure
Post Number: 13
Registered: 02-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 04:57 pm: |
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I fail to understand all the griping I'm reading here about tax. Everyone always seems to complain about 'money the government takes from me', rather than 'money raised from the population to pay for services like roads, hospitals, armies etc'
Negative gearing your income down to low levels is all great unless you want the money to live on.
Trading gives you far more opportunities to reduce your tax burden than the average PAYG punter gets.
o You can spread your investments (or trades) over both partners and take advantage of one's lower tax rate.
o If you hold your positions for a year you halve the amount of tax. (not many deals better than that!)
o you can structure your trading in a company or trust and gain more control over the tax you pay.
o you can use your trading skills to improve your super returns and get all the concessional tax benefits of a super fund.
o and you can negatively gear to reduce your tax rate (although personally I prefer returns big enough to be positively geared)
Apologies if I have strayed too far from the topic of CFD providers.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1467
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 05:39 pm: |
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Azure - that's a great and positive post.
I agree - my goal is to pay $1 million - in legal taxes.
And yes, there are many options to structure our assets and income to achieve this.
Because taxation is such a sensitive issue, we are all interested in seeing how to minimise our personal tax legally.
There are currently two schools of thought, and no clear position from the ATO, despite their statements.
Thus this discussion.
It amazes me that the ATO allows me to trade in my wife's name, or in joint names, as you say, yet does not allow income-splitting for families with one breadwinner.
I can trade in my wife's name if I wish, but she may know little about what I am doing. Yet this is "legally" her income, even if generated by someone else.
Quite an absurd position when you think about it - trading in joint names! Does that means both parties put their finger on the "send" button together, when executing an electronic trade?
Yes, I know "That's the way it's done" but why?
If we trade in joint names, but my wife does not have a clue about what a stock is, how can she equally make a decision?
Answer is: She can't. She relies on me to do her bit - just as she relies on me for our single income.
But strange how her name does not appear on my payslip, when she does not have a clue about my other work either!
Just an ongoing whinge about inconsistency in high places.
Doctors can form a company and call themselves "Dr Jenkins Pty Ltd" but the rest of us can't. But there are legit reasons for that too, which I don't dispute ... just wonder about the equality of it.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 1055
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, May 07, 2006 - 05:49 pm: |
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Azure-How you describe 'being proper' re Tax is the right way to think.Yes you can have lots of 'LoopHoles' when you are in Profit.
The hard time starts when you come to claim Losses.
Azure,the Office is a Harsh Judge of unfortunates,what's called Losers by d'Forum's more heady members.
So when you have an overall loss year,azure,get back to us with your Office is Ok.Good Luck.
Ivan-THEY[d'Office]instituted the Audit[poor man's Investigation]when I was bushy tailed,on the get ahead,ya know?Anyway,I got plopped into a Cmth Car with an expense account and sent to the Sunshine Coast for 3 days of trawling thru Cash Recievers[obviously BLACK]
Anyhow,there was this milkman[it was mid70's milkmen still existed]anyway,out I cruise in this Cmth Falcon to do d'Business.
Ivan,mate,this bloke was living on this dusty farm,pure Ma'n'Pa Kettle,snot nose kids in rags like the LOT!!
well,I wasn't gunner find Anything.Pure Battler on his last legs.
So I come back to d'Office and I,I was d'Only One to find NOTHING to kick off d'Audit system for the Bosses.You can imagine THEY were NIX HAPPY!!my career became a bit woebegone,ya know.Had to cross over to Brian Maher and Associates to get a go!!suited me better bein' for d'Other Side,made more money too,but dats another story.
cheers,
jr
Avatar- PHACOPS{speculator}from the Devonian Period.
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palanquin
Member
Username: palanquin
Post Number: 6
Registered: 04-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, May 08, 2006 - 02:25 pm: |
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KEN,
Thank you for providing the very relevant Taxation Ruling. As always, facts and research, not opinions and rhetoric, facilitate informed decision making.
msparks
Well done for your very succinct summation. No taxation on gambling, even the occasional big win. Taxation kicks in for professionals; those who consistently derive the majority of their income from trading CFD’s. I would suggest that those folk are unlikely to be spending time on this or any other forum.
Blank (Forum Rules dictate):
Everyone’s circumstances are different and as always “caveat emptor” applies. He suggests cross referencing with CMC, haler-fax (deliberate spelling) and Macquarie. Also, I’m advised to check if your accountant is a CPA or Chartered Accountant. CPA’s are required to adhere to certain guidelines to protect their licence. Blank will endeavour to find the time to put this information in writing. At that time I will post to the forum. Otherwise, no further “discussion” on this subject will be entered into.
Palanquin – Just The Messenger
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 1056
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, May 08, 2006 - 04:10 pm: |
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I'm sorry palanquin but more discussion must be entered into if only for those who may read this "NO TAX on cfd" line and never get around to your Blank why/wherefors.
The ONLY or at least best way for say Msparks to pull this 'Lurk' is to INCLUDE cfd profits in their Assessable Income;Be assessed;then WRITE to Office requesting Amendment or making Objection to the inclusion of Gambling Winnings.In this way a definitive answer will be received.
Do NOT just leave it out or attach a note about it.Under self assessment you will be wide open to the Office bringing FRAUD on you with 100%+ penalty.
So INCLUDE it and then ask for a ruling to take it out.
In this way,you will be involved in the Test Case ruling but not racking up interest/penalties if/when it's decided Against you.[and Mr Blank]
anyhow,palanquin,I think the above is necessary info to the amateurs who participate in Forums,right?
As for running with CPA's Vs Chartered Accountants and you want to be on the CPA's side?Well ya gotta LOL you being from Noosa and all.
Good Luck.Hope you get a winning streak,pally.
cheers,
jr
Avatar- PHACOPS{speculator}from the Devonian Period.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1534
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:16 am: |
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After this morning's announcement, I declare that IG Markets is the undisputed king of CFD trading in Australia.
The following is an extract from the web-site of IGM:
$1 Minimum Commission
We are pleased to announce that we have reduced our minimum commission to a new low rate of $1 for Australian Share CFDs!
Your usual commission rates will continue to apply, but we have reduced the level of the minimum rate or 'minimum ticket' from $25 to just $1.
This reduction will apply all trades on Australian shares executed through the online trading platform on this site. A minimum commission of $10 per side will apply to Australian Share CFDs traded by telephone or through our DMA platform.
Any Questions?
Freecall 1800 601 799 or see our contact page for support and trading lines
Now my grade 4 maths tells me that in a small trade, that will save me $48 round trip. If that is not a great offer, I don't know what else they could do.
I spoke to Craig Thiessen this morning, and he informed me that IG Markets continue to be pro-active and pass on savings to members wherever possible.
I was looking for a catch, but Craig said "No catch. It's a reduction of $24, plain and simple. Phone orders : $10 personal service fee still applies, so the reduction on phone orders is essentially $15"
I'm over the moon. Fantastic result.
Combine the low commission now with the GSLO service and guaranteed matched prices, no re-quotes, no slippage on GSLO, and you now have the undisputed leader in the industry.
Now to choose good stocks ...
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 434
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 10:34 am: |
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Ingot; What does it mean that "Your usual commission rates will continue to apply, but we have reduced the level of the minimum rate or 'minimum ticket' from $25 to just $1."
Is the commission $1 per trade? I don't understand the reference to your usual commission rates will continue to apply!
Any clarification?
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1535
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: 
Votes: 1
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| | Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:12 am: |
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Good morning Dave
The commission rate for traders under the $2 mill/month (that's me!) is still 0.2%.
That means on a position of 50 BHP @ $29.00 the gross value is $1450. The Commission @ 0.2% is now $2.90 each way, instead of $25 each way.
The savings on a small position are great - the above trade would save $44.20 round trip. That is quite significant.
I would think that Commsec will be thinking twice about entering the fray with a CFD product, now that this has arrived. IGM has a superior GSLO facility - available on most shares (not all) and this move blows CMC out of contention, along with Marketech, FP Markets and so on.
The only thing the other companies have over IGM is the Iress Trading Platform, but for this they bill you $88/month plus $38/month for ASX data streaming access.
I don't need or want this, but I can understand day traders regard it as essential. You can still get tick-by-tick charts on IGM anyway, and it's free.
In all other areas, imho, it's "Game Over".
For paper traders, there is now no need to paper trade any longer, because the minimum position that can be taken with CFD's is one share.
You can now trade say 10 shares of BHP on the real market for $1 each way to test a system.
I think this is a real breakthrough for traders - especially I see it as a significant win for the smaller struggling blokes.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 826
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:37 am: |
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This allows the small time trader to trade indices directly, buy entering small positions in many related shares. The "index" can be anything you want it to be 
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 435
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:44 am: |
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Sounds excellent Ingot!!!!
So essentially IG is the cheapest in Commission until you start trading $5000+ positions ($5000 x 0.2% = $10, which is the minimum of most other providers!)
Not sure when I'll be ready to come back online with live trading, but will definitely consider IG.
Thanks for the info Ingot, am heading over to their website again for a looksy!!!!
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1536
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, June 01, 2006 - 11:53 am: |
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I forgot to mention that their interest on long and short positions held overnight is the official cash rate set by the Res Bank, +/- 2.5%.
This matches or beats other providers, some of whom quote +/- 3% or even 3.5%.
Just another reason to like them.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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pasminco
Member
Username: pasminco
Post Number: 41
Registered: 02-2005
Rating:
Votes: 1
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| | Friday, June 02, 2006 - 01:17 am: |
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It's about time these thirsty blood-sucking vermin started catching up with their brethren in the states. I've been avoiding short-term trading with brokers in Oz because of their outrageously expensive transaction fees, the popular stock brokers charge around $18+ for any trade, whereas in the US I trade for $1 per side for stocks.
IG, you have my business, good work! Watch the stock brokers squirm now. And watch the markets become more mature with a flood of new players (baby boomers retiring)narrowing the spreads. Cool, now I can trade BHP all day and all night too!
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novice1
Member
Username: novice1
Post Number: 1
Registered: 06-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, June 11, 2006 - 01:42 pm: |
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Hi,
I have been looking into IG Markets. I’m not 100% clear on the differences, advantages/disadvantages of each account.
From what I gather with a limited risk account every trade requires GSLO so you avoid margin calls but are limited to a certain number of companies you can trade with. You don't have access to the L2 DMA platform though? So does that mean it is essentially a MM account where by once the order is hit or stopped it trades instantly, no queuing?
With a standard account wouldn’t you have the best of both worlds, DMA L2 platform, access to more companies, with the option of placing GSLO’s on certain companies?
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 830
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, June 12, 2006 - 10:30 am: |
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With a standard account you also have the choice of becoming your own worst enemy by not placing GSLO's to save a few pennies ...
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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novice1
Member
Username: novice1
Post Number: 2
Registered: 06-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, June 12, 2006 - 02:49 pm: |
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Hi perler,
Thanks for the reply.
I can defiantly see where your coming from but there still seems to be a few drawbacks for the limited Risk account, ie no DMA, L2 platform?
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histrionix
Member
Username: histrionix
Post Number: 106
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, June 15, 2006 - 09:31 pm: |
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I know I have posted on this before and I was brought up short because I hadn't read previous posts. First Prudential appear to have a very good DMA deal going.
When last I posted it was pointed out to me that the good deals are only available to those trading $1 million + per month.
However, I have recently received a message from First Prudential offering $10 or 0.1% per trade for life if you open an account before 30 June 2006 - no trade volume limitation.
You do have to pay $50 a month(was $99 as per Davkell; above) for the trade platform, but it is WebIress (which, as I understand from friends who use it, is the bees-knees of trading platforms) No ASX Royalty fee (formerly $38 pm as per Davkell above) and you can trade shares or CFD's from the same platform/account.
May be of interest to some.
http://www.fpmarkets.com.au/openaccount_funding.htm
H
There is a tide in the affairs of men which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1548
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, July 31, 2006 - 05:58 pm: |
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IG Markets from tomorrow, will become the outright leader in CFD provider Services in Australia. Hands down!
Craig Thiessen said today that from Tuesday 1st August 2006 IG Markets would be offering CFD trading from just 0.1% each way.
Recently IGM reduced their commissions from $25 each way (buy/sell) down to just $1 minimum each way, effectively opening the door to all traders wishing to test systems, or simply gain experience trading this way.
It meant that if a trader wished to buy just 10 share CFD's to try out a method, he could do it without incurring a huge transaction cost. That alone was a huge step forward.
It meant that for a trader to incur the previous level of transaction charges, he would need to open a position of $12,500, which equates to 0.2% commission.
Now the position size would need to be $25,000 before reaching that level of costs.
On the other end of the scale, which involves folk like me, I can open a position of gross value of say $7000, and the commission each way will drop from $14 to $7. ($7000 X 0.2% = $14). (250 BHP @ $28 equates to a gross position size of $7000)
Previously, each way, this would have cost $25, then $14 after the minimum $1 commission was introduced, and now $7 each way.
To me it is the most exciting news, and I intend to re-vamp my investing strategy.
It is time for me to be looking at systems which turn over my positions a little more quickly, which is very much the way to trade this instrument, and now, more than ever, in these times of increased market volatility.
Now, with lowered costs, I can do that.
There is another hidden benefit - IG Markets have a "reward rate" of 0.08% commission for which you can qualify.
1) If you day-trade any of their 20 "specialist day-trading stocks" - (you can find this list on the site fairly easily).
2) If your monthly turnover reaches $2 million you receive the "Active Traders" rate. Initially you are charged 0.1% but the difference (reduced rate) is credited to your a/c at the end of the month.
The list of "Day Trade Stocks" is found at the "Share CFD's" link on IG Markets home page.
Why do I say "hidden benefit"? Because traders can now afford to turn-over their trades much more frequently, making it easier to hit the $2 million qualifying figure for the reduced commission rate.
IG Markets have produced a new PDS (Product Disclosure Statement) which all traders should read and become familiar with. There are no secrets hidden in there, but it does outline properly the responsibilities of the trader and the provider, so that few "glitches" occur in transactions and a/c operation.
As I said before, I do not have any connection with IG Markets other than as a trader using their platform and services.
But I have to give credit where it is due, as I have tried to fairly do with FP Markets, CMC and MarkeTech. I have not researched Macquarie CFD's, MAN or Sonray, so am unable to comment, but each product brings its own unique features.
Before I commenced trading CFD's about 18 months ago, I thoroughly researched the providers, and came down on the side of IGM purely because of their Guaranteed Stop Loss Facility.
Today, I am glad that I stuck with them, even though recently their charges were less competitive for awhile.
Today, my patience has been rewarded, as IGM have addressed the transaction costs factor, and more than ever before, lead the way in CFD Provider Services in Australia and the UK.
I reckon I should be in sales, instead of trading!
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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indos
Member
Username: indos
Post Number: 31
Registered: 01-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 09:40 am: |
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Hi Ingot
I agree with your comments on IG - I have recently signed up with them and find them excellent.I was with Macquarie before.
However I cant find your list of day trade stocks.All I can locate is a sentence that says the day traders special offer finishes on 18/8.Is that what you were referring to?There is no link to a list that I can see.
Are you able to give me more details on where the list is?
Thanks
Indo
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1550
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 10:11 am: |
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Good Morning Indos
Unfortunately I do not have the list. Checking the web site just now shows the list has been removed.
I do know it comprises most of the S&P ASX Top 20 but not all of the banks, and AMP is at the top (alphabetically) of the list.
It seems they are removing their discount for day traders.
You never know with IGM - they may have something else in the pipeline to replace it, but I have not heard.
Next time I talk to them, I'll ask. Craig Thiessen told me they are proactive - trying to pass back any cost saving to the client, and so far, this has been the case. I have no doubt they will also be keeping all costs and charges under review.
Kind regards
Ingot
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 446
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 10:26 am: |
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Would seem funny if they remove it... just this morning I received an email from IG explaining their new commission structure, and it still mentioned the 0.08% day trader commission!
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1551
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 10:38 am: |
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Agree Davkell
I am going to email helpdesk@igmarkets.com.au expressing my vote for the discount to remain.
The reasons I want it to stay are:
1) The current volatility in the market makes it best to ride the moves intra-day
2) I trade the ASX Top 50 about 95% of the time.
While I occasionally will lash out on a strongly trending smaller cap, the liquidity and charts have to line up with that decision.
Currently the market is up and down like an ant at a picnic table. For example, last night the DOW, NASDAQ and FTSE were all in negative territory. Our own market sold off at the last hour and post-market auction yesterday.
Yet, as I write, the XJO is at 4997 after being 4970 earlier! That's currently UP around 11 points to the green!
Very volatile, and not confidence-inspiring in any trend forming just yet.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1552
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 12:03 pm: |
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IG markets have responded to my email with a phone call to advise that the Day Trader's special will not continue after the 18th August.
It was a "special" and now with minimum commissions at $1 and the general commission at 0.1% there is no longer the incentive with that rate as before. Not many traders actually use the day-trading discount in practice.
As the difference is only 0.02% that would equate to $2 on a $10,000 exposure. Hardly worth bothering about, and from IG Market's point of view, most traders of the Top 20 would reach close to the $2 million per month anyway, made easier with the reduced commission now.
I imagine they would also have less administration calculations as well, with streamlining of commission rates to 0.1%.
I am quite pleased with the recent developments. I think the deal is pretty fair now.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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msparks
Member
Username: msparks
Post Number: 602
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 08:07 pm: |
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$2,000,000 . 00 a month eh, two million dollars}
How much money are these guys making ?
2,000,000 by ~ 20 trading days in a month
That equals $100,000 .00 dollars per day trade.
With 5% leveraged is a risk of say, at a guess, about $5000 dollars per day with a GSL in place.
So some young gun can , with about a $10,000 dollar BANK (bit extra for the odd loss of a little) and using a 5% GSL, can trade 2 million dollars a month turnover or $100,000 dollars a day.
WITH about a $10,000 BANK !!!as long as he doesn't lose.
Is it any wonder the markets are VOLATILE.
If this trader could pick up 1% a day with his $5,000 dollars at risk he would make 20% per day on $5,000.
20,000 dollars a month with $5000 at risk, as long as he or she makes 1% per day.
Watching the ticks, buy , sell, buy , sell until you get 1% for the day, and go and play golf or whatever these hard working traders with $5,000 dollars like to do.
Crikey, just trading the open is worth a few percent,
at an hourly rate these guys could be on $1000 for 5 minutes work.
The new way of life, beats working for peanuts, doin the time, learning the ropes, just click ,click, click on the mouse.
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peter1
Member
Username: peter1
Post Number: 78
Registered: 12-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, August 01, 2006 - 11:46 pm: |
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Ivan, welcome back.
Seeing you are the unofficial IC IG Markets sales team. Does the 0.1% commish from IG Markets apply to US stock cfds? Do they have GSLO on the US stock cfds?
(Naturally I will check this out for myself at some stage.)
btw: This thread is too outdated and should be culled. The cfd market is changing rapidly.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1556
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:29 am: |
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Hello Peter
Thanks for the greeting - good to catch up with you.
Below are the rates I just copied from the IG Markets site.
I had no idea of anything other than Aussie stuff, so a bit of a learning exercise.
Country........Cimmission...Min Charge...Min Charge(Phone)
Australia......... 0.10%..........$1...........$10
UK tier 1 .........0.15%..........£10..........£15
UK tier 2 .........0.15%..........£15..........£20
US .............4 US cents/share..US$15......US$25
Euro tier 1........0.20%......... E15..........E25
Euro tier 2........0.25%..........E20..........E25
Denmark............0.25%.........N/A........DKK400
Norway.............0.25%.........N/A........NOK400
Sweden.............0.20%.......SEK350.......SEK350
Switzerland........0.20%.......CHF15........CHF25
Greece..............0.75%..........E40..........E40
Canada..........4 cents/share.....N/A.........CAD25
Hong Kong..........0.30%.......HKD25.........HKD25
Singapore...........0.30%.......SGD25*........SGD25*
South Africa........0.50%.......ZAR300........ZAR300
IOB Shares......5 cents/share...N/A...........$25
IOB = International Order Book. There are some other countries whose stocks are offered as trades also which are not included. I have not heard of them before!
Hope this helps.
Ivan
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1557
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 12:36 am: |
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The other part of your question:
Limited Risk transactions are available on certain shares at our discretion. The premium for a Limited Risk transaction is normally 0.3% of the transaction value, with South African and IOB shares being notable exceptions: the Limited Risk premium is normally 1.0% for these shares (please note that the Limited Risk premium for all shares may be as much as 1.5% of the transaction value depending on market conditions and the volatility of the particular share).
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 848
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 09:47 am: |
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Its interesting that IG is a UK company and yet Australians are getting the best deal Perhaps UK residents get a different price on UK CFDs ? Perhaps Oz in an experiment? Whatever the reason, I hope it continues!
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 447
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 02:31 pm: |
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This new commission structure has a possible extra bonus for traders. That is a good reason to pyramid into trades.
Instead of buying your entire position outright, you could buy 20% of your position, and if the trade pans out in your direction, you buy further lots. Hence, if it goes against you (as most profitable systems do have a high percentage of losing trades) then you are minimising your loss, but maximising your profits when the trade is profitable!
Just thought of this after reading a chapter on pyramiding in the new book: "Real Traders, Real Lives, Real Money" by Eva Diaz. ** Quite good so far.
Cheers.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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histrionix
Member
Username: histrionix
Post Number: 107
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 07:37 pm: |
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Ingot, or anyone else for that matter,
Have you, by any chance, encountered the following problem with the IG Markets standard platform?
When you click on the name of an item you have in your Live Prices list you get a drop down menu with "Tick Chart" as an option. When I select that I get a window pop up. The word "Initialising" is quickly followed by "Loading" but then after a few seconds, I get "Error 1" This happens on both my home and my work computer.
I phoned IG Markets today and after some discussion I was advised that "Error 1" indicates that my anti-virus software is blocking the tick chart from opening. I was advised to try opening it with my virus software turned off. (shudder!)
I have to say the answer sounded hollow to me because the two machines are protected by two different but very high profile anti-virus software. I would have anticipated that if that were truly the cause of the problem IG would have been inundated with calls.
Well I tried - of course it didn't solve the problem! Any ideas anyone?
H
There is a tide in the affairs of men which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.
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andrewk
Member
Username: andrewk
Post Number: 241
Registered: 09-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, August 02, 2006 - 09:43 pm: |
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I'm not familiar with IG Markets, but the $1 minimum in particular has me interested. On the website, it says that the low commission is not available with DMA - so is it possible that they may be factoring in some of the costs into the spread?
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1558
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 12:38 am: |
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Hello Histrionix and Andrewk
No, I have not had that particular error you mention. But I did have problems with the javascript running on Mozilla and Opera browsers.
I have since installed eTrust Pest Patrol to stop Adware/Malware/Spyware and the like, and run Vet anti-virus, and gone back to using IE6 browser. It is now trouble-free.
Andrew, I checked over the IG markets L2 (DMA) pages, and as far as I can see, they do offer the same 0.1 commission and $1 minimum per trade on DMA trades. If you go into the L2 or DMA link, it will take you to "DMA Equities".
Once there, click on "Contract Details" from the Left Hand menu, and it will take you to 3 links. Click on the middle link: "Contract Details: Australia."
A new window opens, with all countries and their rates and margins tabulated. It is there that they offer 0.1% commissions and $1 minimum trades.
Hope that helps.
I found out that it is not possible to have both DMA and Controlled Risk platforms on the same computer, or registered in the same name as the other a/c. I tried to open a DMA a/c, but an automated message told me it is not possible.
Will ask when I next speak with them, but I am only assuming it is a conflict of the software required to run both programmes. (Java can be touchy, but not sure)
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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ken
Member
Username: ken
Post Number: 402
Registered: 04-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 01:45 pm: |
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Hello Ingot,
Although what you say about the website is correct, I am using the L2 platform and the minimum commission is $10.
Hope that is helpful to people.
Ken
Trade with the trend, not against it.
The trend is the direction of the 22ema line (Elder)
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 849
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 02:09 pm: |
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Ken,
I'm curious. What exactly does the L2 platform do? When you enter an order, do you see it in SEATS or is it only visible to other IG L2 users?
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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ken
Member
Username: ken
Post Number: 403
Registered: 04-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 03:37 pm: |
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Perler,
Yes,
I can see it in the queue in my Comsec pro trader. There is no conditional order processing, so you have to use limit or market orders. What other specific questions do you have regarding "what does it do?"
Trade with the trend, not against it.
The trend is the direction of the 22ema line (Elder)
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 850
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 04:08 pm: |
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Ken. That answers my questions. Its like a margin loan and you can short sell. Are you allowed to short sell directly into the bid and force prices down? Not that I'm recommending that as a trading strategy!
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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ken
Member
Username: ken
Post Number: 404
Registered: 04-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 04:19 pm: |
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Perler,
Yes,
I can sell to the bid or sell from the offer, just like the market. Anything I can do with Pro Trader long I can do long or short with L2, if the stocks can be borrowed for shorting. As I said before, the exception is the conditional entry or exit is not available.
Ken
Trade with the trend, not against it.
The trend is the direction of the 22ema line (Elder)
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1560
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 04:23 pm: |
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Ken - Absolutely correct
Glad you brought it up, because I was not aware of it, and was freely giving out misinformation based on what I saw on the site.
I rang IGM and they confirmed that both telephone-placed orders and DMA orders are priced at $10. Only limited risk trades are $1 minimum.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1561
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 04:27 pm: |
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Can't upload a screenshot - sorry.
It clearly shows (as you probably saw yourself) that the L2 platform info shows the $1 minimum commission. I guess they use the same files for both screens.
Cheers
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly long term.
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coyotte
Member
Username: coyotte
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, August 03, 2006 - 11:06 pm: |
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Histrionix :
Have only recently changed from CMC to IG
Have found the IG platform an absolute headache
Have the latest version of Java with installation verifyed by Sun (operates O/K everywhere else but IG )---- did find that downloading the latest version of Flash seemed to improve things though
Main problems atm are -- having to relog on after making a deal (IE7) --- Closes down Firefox --- Cannot deal under IE6 (dealing window appears with no prices )
Although CMC are dearer $10 deal & $40 Mth ASX data at least their platform is stable --- and they have a LIST of shares that can be SHORTED ---- overseas dealing is around the same price as dealing in OZ
IMHO unless IG can get their platform bug free and produce a list of SHORTS I'll be back with CMC before years end
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 851
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, August 04, 2006 - 09:03 am: |
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Coyotte,
I have problems with IG and Sun Java and Firefox (less all the time), but I have no problems when using IE6 and MS-Java. MS-Java is not easy to find due to the legal dispute with Sun and Firefox will only use Sun Java for security reasons. I have both Java's installed and can switch IE to use either one. (Tools/Internet options/Advanced).
MS-Java can be found here: ftp://tux.samsons.com.au/pub/Java_MS/msjavx86.exe
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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histrionix
Member
Username: histrionix
Post Number: 108
Registered: 08-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, August 04, 2006 - 07:28 pm: |
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Interesting words, Perler and Coyotte. I have, subsequent to my previous post, had IG confirm their original diagnosis of my problem.
At home I have PC-cillin and, at work, McAfee. Both have recently updated their offering and, according to IG, both now block the tick chart. Apparently "London" is working on it and hopes to have the problem sorted within a couple of days (as of yesterday.)
I confess that I am at a loss to understand how these anti-virus packages are perfectly happy to let in the IG Markets pages, the historical data - some of which (forex) provides real time data, and all kinds of other groovy stuff, but spits the dummy at tick charts! Still, I am no computer expert . . . nevertheless, you would have thought that, with the number of customers who must (statistically speaking) have either PC-cillin or MacAfee protecting their PC's, the sky would just about be falling in on the heads of IG!
I have aked them to e-mail me when the problem is under control. If it all works I shall be sure to advise you all.
Regards.
H
There is a tide in the affairs of men which, taken at the flood, leads on to fortune.
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 852
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, August 04, 2006 - 07:59 pm: |
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I refuse to run any behaviour blocking background software because of the huge performance hit, and because of problems like Coyotte is having. I know the average windows user thinks they can't survive without it, but I've been a computer tech for years, so I know how NOT to get infected
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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msparks
Member
Username: msparks
Post Number: 619
Registered: 10-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, August 04, 2006 - 08:55 pm: |
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Hi perler
As a computer tech, how do you stop all those annoying emails from different unknown people every day.
I know some keep changing email address but what a hassle.
I am getting about 2 or 3 a day now, seems to be getting worse.TIA
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azure
Member
Username: azure
Post Number: 14
Registered: 02-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, August 04, 2006 - 09:30 pm: |
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msparks,
I use a mail reader called thunderbird which has a spam filter built into it. It also learns what you consider spam by looking at what messages you mark as spam (or not spam). I used to get around 50-100 spam emails a day and it would filter out around 90% of them.
You can get plugins for outlook that will perform a similar function.
Thunderbird now also has a scam email filter that identifies emails that might be phishing scams (i.e. your bank account has been locked, please visit this website and enter your account details to unlock it, etc)
Hope that helps
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 853
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, August 05, 2006 - 05:34 pm: |
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Hi Sparky
This has gone way off topic, but anyway, all my email goes through a linux server which has integrated virus and spam filters.
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 880
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, September 18, 2006 - 09:01 am: |
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"Dear valued client,
Due to an ASIC review of our current Product Disclosure Statement CMC Markets Asia Pacific is currently unable to extend or open new CFD positions on behalf of its clients."
I wonder what changes to the PDS are required?
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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deanrosario
Member
Username: deanrosario
Post Number: 1129
Registered: 11-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, September 20, 2006 - 01:16 pm: |
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The new PDS is a lot more extensive, "professional-looking" and clearly outlines all the risks involved with CFD trading.
For me it is business as usual, but would be interested to hear from anyone who has decided to close his/her account because something is now stated in the PDS that wasn't stated in the previous PDS.
Dean
"Never commit yourself to anything you can't walk away from in 30 seconds." Neil McCauley (played by Robert de Niro) in 'Heat'.
"Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane." Ellis Boyd "Red" Redding, played by Morgan Freeman, in 'The Shawshank Redemption'.
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trina
Member
Username: trina
Post Number: 5
Registered: 09-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, September 30, 2006 - 02:26 pm: |
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A question about CFDs and underlying stocks going bust:
If I have a CFD share position with a Guaranteed stop loss order (GSLO via say, IG Markets) for a total value of $20,000 (but with only $1,000 deposited as a margin), what happens in the rare occassion of the underlying stock suddenly being delisted (ie Sons of Gwalia, HIH)? I understand that this would be a rare event seeing I can only use GSLOs with ASX300 but nothing is impossible.
Does my GSLO protect me down to my stop loss level, or am I now liable for the whole position of $20,000??
Thanks!
Trina
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 886
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, October 01, 2006 - 11:55 am: |
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Hi Trina.
The GSLO protects you at your stop level. That's what the "G" stands for
(Message edited by perler59 on October 01, 2006)
http://sttc.net.au/~stever
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trina
Member
Username: trina
Post Number: 6
Registered: 09-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, October 02, 2006 - 06:08 pm: |
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Thanks - yes I checked with IG Markets - and GSLO covers all events including delisting.
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colin_twiggs
Member
Username: colin_twiggs
Post Number: 2681
Registered: 09-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:52 am: |
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A telephonic question by reader Mike:
Which CFD providers provide the best service for trading US stocks?
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deanrosario
Member
Username: deanrosario
Post Number: 1148
Registered: 11-2002Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 13, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
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I've traded US stocks, FX, Aussie Stocks, Commodities and Worldwide indices through CMC and find the service to be the same regardless of the instrument being traded.
So, if you like / dislike the CMC service for trading any particular instrument you should find you will like / dislike the service for other instruments.
"Never commit yourself to anything you can't walk away from in 30 seconds." Neil McCauley (played by Robert de Niro) in 'Heat'.
"Hope is a dangerous thing. Hope can drive a man insane." Ellis Boyd "Red" Redding, played by Morgan Freeman, in 'The Shawshank Redemption'.
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azure
Member
Username: azure
Post Number: 15
Registered: 02-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 13, 2006 - 12:37 pm: |
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Ditto with Marketech. I have made a few trades with US stocks as well as international indices and FX and the interface is the same as Aussie CFDs.
I _much_ prefer the Marketech platform to CMC and I also prefer it to webiress which FPmarkets (and others) use.
I think pretty much all the providers offer a demo version of their trading platform, so try before you sign up.
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 471
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, December 06, 2006 - 10:53 pm: |
|
Thought I might resurect this post just quickly to advise that I recently attended a Green CFD seminar (http://www.greencfd.com.au/)
Although their name will be changing in the New Year as they've just been bought by City Index (UK).
These guys seem really on the ball to me. Without going into a great deal as you can find out for yourself, they have addressed many of the concerns of CFD traders from other providers.
I would definitely recommend you attend one of their free seminars for more information. Mine was attended by Catherine Davey (always interesting to listen to) and includes a free $250 deposit to my account if signing up within 2weeks. (A special offer because of the new company).
Of particular note: they have a special 'training' account which you can use for 8weeks when first signing on. It includes free commission and the ability to trade only 1 CFD, to practice your skills and risk management etc. Also includes free ASX fee for the 8weeks.
Cheers.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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trader888
Member
Username: trader888
Post Number: 4
Registered: 07-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, May 07, 2007 - 11:45 pm: |
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I am looking to trade with CFD. Has been trading shares / options for 5 years.
I am interest to hear people opinion regard which CFD Provider is currently providing good service and reasonable cost?
thanks
Regards
Henry
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 507
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, May 09, 2007 - 08:11 pm: |
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trader888: Have a look at my last post in this thread. And visit www.cityindex.com.au.
Especially good for the 8week trading academy where you can trade commission free while you learn.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 508
Registered: 07-2004
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Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 01:00 pm: |
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CFD Provider Update:
Hi all; Just attended a Macquarie Bank seminar on a new product they have just commenced. It's called Macquarie Prime. It is an all in one platform for trading. It still has CFD's but they are encouraging them for hedging purposes only. There big claim is that their new system will end the need for CFD's as a trading tool.
Essentially, you can trade in actual shares with access to voting rights, franked dividends and capital gains rules etc and choose your own leverage. You have access to 1800 ASX listed stocks, but for leverage purposes you will find the same availability of stocks as current CFD providers. ie. The ASX 300 essentially.
You can choose to leverage your account up to 95%. So for example, if you buy $10K worth of BHP, you will only have to put up 5% collateral, same as a CFD trade. Without going into the depths of the system, the major benefit here is that (a) interest charged on your positions is based on amount owing ONLY, not the current value of the entire trade as it is in CFD's. Hence, if your $10K of BHP goes up in value to $15K, you are still only paying interest on the original trade value, less your collateral.
There are some other excellent benefits, such as interest off-sets on short positions and cash account.
Worth checking out anyhow. Try one of their Prime seminars or goto their website.
Minimum account opening is $5k, and minimum commission is $20.
Cheers.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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shawky
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Username: shawky
Post Number: 560
Registered: 11-2003
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| | Saturday, July 14, 2007 - 07:36 pm: |
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Davkell
I've had a look at the info on the net and it looks good, especially being able to combine CFDs, shares etc into the one platform and set of accounts. I'm still using CMC for CFDs and ComSec for direct shares, but trying to manage everything on disparate systems is a little more difficult. One set of financial statements would be great for accounting purposes.
Has anyone on IC joined up with Prime yet? Any feedback? What is the platform like to use? Is the monthly report well formated? etc etc
I saw the main benefits being:
1. One stop shop (if it is as good as it implies)
2. Potentially lower interest costs due to long/short/cash offset.
Short costs were a lot higher though and appear to eat into the other savings going on the example on the website.
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davkell
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Username: davkell
Post Number: 523
Registered: 07-2004
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| | Monday, July 16, 2007 - 12:00 am: |
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Shawky;
I saw the best benefit being the separation away from the CFD hype, that being you purchase real shares, with access to the full franking credits etc, but your interest charged is ONLY on the original position. With CFD's if you purchase $10K worth of ABC stock, you are charged interest on $10K. If that position increases to $20K you are then charged interest on $20K, whereas with Prime's system, you are only charged interest on the original $10K.
Now, all they need is the ability to trade commodities, FX and Indices and it will be a one stop shop.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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shawky
Member
Username: shawky
Post Number: 561
Registered: 11-2003
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| | Monday, July 16, 2007 - 10:05 am: |
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Thanks
The way margin interest is calculated is a big selling point. I would have thought that indices would have been available o at least the Aussie 200 via the SFE.
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maxboost
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Username: maxboost
Post Number: 159
Registered: 12-2005
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| | Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 09:32 pm: |
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Hi,
Anyone out there know much about the up coming asx cfd's apart from whats on the web site?
http://www.asx.com.au/investor/cfds/index.htm
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 524
Registered: 07-2004
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| | Wednesday, July 18, 2007 - 09:50 pm: |
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Hi Max;
That's essentially all there is to know. The seminars are ASX's education of the new product, how they will work on the exchange etc etc. I'm down to go for my own curiosity.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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maxboost
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Username: maxboost
Post Number: 160
Registered: 12-2005
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Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, July 19, 2007 - 12:42 pm: |
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Hi Davkell,
Thanks for the reply. I think it will be interesting to find out how they are actually going to work and who you can trade them through.
cheers
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trader888
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Username: trader888
Post Number: 19
Registered: 07-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, December 03, 2007 - 09:42 pm: |
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Hi
Have anyone try Commsec for trading ASX CFD ?
Any comments ? cost for long ? cost for short ?
And how does it compare to CMC CFD ?
I got CMC account but thinking to open Commsec ASX CFD account.
Many thanks in advance.
Regards
trader888
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smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 778
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0
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| | Monday, February 04, 2008 - 06:45 pm: |
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Hello,
I'm seeking some info on ASX CFD, I've been to the ASX site and had a look. It seems there are only 50 stocks that one can trade as compared to CMC.
How does ASX CFD works? Are there any market makers? Are they liquid?
Apprecriate any thoughts.
Rugby is just a game, it isnt a matter of life or death, it is more important than that
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smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 779
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0
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| | Monday, February 04, 2008 - 08:43 pm: |
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Just another question for the folks that are using IG markets
Do they charge exchange fees like CMC?
Rugby is just a game, it isnt a matter of life or death, it is more important than that
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nat
Member
Username: nat
Post Number: 66
Registered: 01-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, February 04, 2008 - 09:28 pm: |
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hi there ,yes they do but if do certain number of transactions in shares they dont charge you, same as cmc i thought.If only doing indexes that doesnt count towards dropping the fee. Nathan
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easymoney
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Username: easymoney
Post Number: 112
Registered: 03-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 07:40 am: |
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I signed up with IG markets recently. One of the questions was whether you are an amateur or professional trader. The amateurs are not charged the ASX feed fee.
Two of them say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.
Industrial Disease
Dire Straits
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smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 780
Registered: 01-2004
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Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 04:59 pm: |
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Thanks for the responses
I checked with IG today. With IG I now have a choice of either DMA or using a market maker, both have the same commission and cost structure. Data Feed cost is 37.60 per month if there were less than 4 trades a month, otherwise its free. commission is either 0.1% or $8 per trade, whichever is higher.
Also spoke to Comsec, ASXCFD is a market maker model trading only the top 50 stocks, plus indices and fx etc. comsec also have otc cfd which is DMA. commission is higher at 0.125% or 14.95 whichever is higher. interest margin is 3%, ie 10% on long and 4% on short. In terms of platform, With comsec i can use webiress, while with IG, I have to use their platform.
Rugby is just a game, it isnt a matter of life or death, it is more important than that
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smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 781
Registered: 01-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, February 05, 2008 - 09:42 pm: |
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There is also a major difference in how IG and comsec handles your money, According to IG financial services Guide 4.3. three points stand out particularly
(1) pay, withdraw, deduct or apply any amounts from your money held in any separate account, and to use such money in our business from time to time, including for the payment of amounts to our counter-parties;
(2)your money may be co-mingled into one or more separate accounts with our other customers’ money;
(3) the obligations to you under the Customer Agreement and the CFDs are unsecured obligations, meaning that you are an unsecured creditor of ours.
In the current financial climate, the risks associated with (1) and (3) could well be too high. Particularly If I want to consider a substantial CFD portfolio.
With Comsec, your money is always in your name in your own bank account.
Rugby is just a game, it isnt a matter of life or death, it is more important than that
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perler59
Member
Username: perler59
Post Number: 1016
Registered: 09-2003
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, May 02, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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I.G have announced automated trailing stops for forex and index trades. Sounds like a good idea to me. I haven't used it yet but it appears to be a simple algorithm of moving 'N' pips in a 'step' after the price moves far enough to trigger the step (up is case of long).
http://ttc.net.au/~stever
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albuera
Member
Username: albuera
Post Number: 1
Registered: 08-2008Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 04:43 pm: |
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I'm new to this forum and have never traded CFD's. Would like to know others views on cfd providers such as CMC and IG Markets. Have spoken to CMC Markets and they sound pretty good. Have read some previous posts dated about 2 years ago about CMC as a marketmaker not always guaranteeing that their cfd price is the same as the underlying share price. Sounds shifty, is this still the case. What do others think. Any advice or experiences would be appreciated.
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 566
Registered: 07-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 06:10 pm: |
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Evening Al;
I think the consensus is to stay away from CMC, but they are a large company with benefits as well as drawbacks!
Suggestion: If you're new to CFD's then definitely attend one of the many free seminars most of the providers hold. CMC hold them, so do IG Markets and my provider City Index. City Index also have an 8 week educational period where you can trade commission free and as low as 1 CFD to learn the system and your trading.
Cheers and welcome to trading.
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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eric
Member
Username: eric
Post Number: 193
Registered: 09-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 06:53 pm: |
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Albuera, I am trading with IG Markets and First Prudential. I find them both very good, they are direct market access. Each one has its own advantages and disadvantages.
I am happy to answer any questions you may have.
Eric
www.tradingaustralianshares.com
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albuera
Member
Username: albuera
Post Number: 2
Registered: 08-2008Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 09:22 pm: |
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Davkell and Eric
Thanks for the advice and I will attend a free seminar. A couple more questions if that's ok - Direct Market Access does that ensure that the cfd traded is at the same price as the underlying share ? Also I'm particularly interested in selling short cfd's, I know the pro's would be shorting stocks far more than going long during bear markets. CMC,who I now would be reluctant to join, quoted over the phone to me a couple of days ago that we could trade cfd's on top 500 stocks.I suppose All Ords. And 183 stocks from the ASX200 they allowed for cfd short selling. IG Markets have 1000 shares on there online cfd list. I don't know how many can be shorted, it appears well short of a hundred. Any advice on short selling cfd's would be appreciated.
It's good to get an independent view, rather than believing everything from a salesman of the company.
Thanks again for the quick replies and good luck !
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eric
Member
Username: eric
Post Number: 194
Registered: 09-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, August 25, 2008 - 09:52 am: |
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Hi Albuera,
Yes, DMA means that you get the price of the underlying shares. As a matter of fact, if you either buy or sell a cfd, you can see the actual sale going out of the market if you have level 2 access.
I like both IG and FP for short selling, send me an email if you want to know more about the intricate details.
Eric
www.tradingaustralianshares.com
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albuera
Member
Username: albuera
Post Number: 3
Registered: 08-2008Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, August 25, 2008 - 04:24 pm: |
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Hi Eric,
Thank you for the advice it's much appreciated. I'll be doing at least one of the free courses the providers offer and some more reading and then I'll give it a crack using stop losses always. Good luck to you and with your trading !
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