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orangeguy

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Post Number: 53
Registered: 07-2004

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 05:41 pm:

Hi,

Just want to see if anyone has done the course run by hometrader (run by jason davis)? If teaches you to develop your own trading system with mentor support. About to goto an intro session to see what its like. Its $6k and i have always been weary of these courses. Can anyone share any views on the course?

Many Thanks.

(Message edited by orangeguy on March 22, 2006)

ingot54

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Post Number: 1229
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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 06:04 pm:

Orangeguy

Your question is another in a long list of similar questions posed to this forum.

It seems the prices get higher for these courses the longer the bull run continues.

By all means attend, but if you were running this course as a business, (as opposed to operating the system to make money for yourself that way), how would you pitch the business to potential purchasers?

I imagine you would trot out a few of your most successful traders, and as many stats as possible, to show that indeed this can be done.

You would also need an "angle"- a method no one else has publicised or sold before, so that your product appears unique. Perhaps an unusual combination of indicators...?

Most of these courses can show their profitability on the night. When you go along to check it out, try to find out how strong they are on money management. Ask as many questions as you can, publicly, and see how much detail you are able to (publicly) receive in response.

At the end of the day, there is nothing new under the trading sun. Most methods will work, provided stops are placed in appropriate places, and entry is set to provide safety, plus an edge on probability. As well, the method needs to allow for unlimited upside.

As is often stated in reply to questions like this, there are some on this forum whom you would be better served to approach privately, with an offer of $500 per hour for tuition.

Your $6k would buy you 12 hours. I guarantee you would be profitable after 3 hours with someone like Tony_M, Peter1, Spider, Justice, Stickman, Stevo, and on and on. That leaves a lot of change for you to invest.

I think you know that - you have been around here long enough.

I have seen the adverts for Home Trader - they do look impressive, and they always pop up whenever the ASX Trading Game is in full swing. It may be co-incidental, but it just happens to be the time when many Mums and Dads "would-be" traders are feeling for the first time the thrill of placing an investment into the share market.

Please report back on your findings. I hope I have not appeared too cynical, and that you are not put off.

Also ask yourself if the style of trading would suit you. That is, do you have to stare at the screen all day? Is this the kind of "freedom" you had in mind when wanting to be a trader? Locked in your chair, following tick-by-tick?

Keep Smiling

Trading style :CFD's predominantly. Looking for ways to enter CFD trading over long term.

ingot54

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 06:06 pm:

PS - My response was not specifically directed at you, Orangeguy - you were honestly seeking out if anyone else has had a look at this.

My response was also an attempt to warn any would-be readers too, about the risks of paying for courses of this nature, particularly at such a premium.

Keep Smiling

Trading style :CFD's predominantly. Looking for ways to enter CFD trading over long term.

orangeguy

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Post Number: 54
Registered: 07-2004

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Wednesday, March 22, 2006 - 10:08 pm:

Hi Ignot,

I thank you for your reply and your very useful opinion. From a chat I have had with them so far, they do emphasise heavily on money management, most notably stop losses and position sizing. The aspect I like about the course is that they are not selling you a blackbox, rather they 'coach' you to create your own trading system to suit your trading style and back test it with a mentor allocated to you for 12 months.

I also understand that as a business, they will put a positive spin to the whole course at the intro session. I am considering a few options at the moment and hope to become a full time trader.

While I am currently trading part time while completing my studies, my results are not great enough to sustain as a full time job. Hence why I am looking for a mentor to guide me into the right direction.

I do appreciate that you have provided me with another point of view, and I also look forward to hearing other people's opinion including any that have completed this course before.

Cheers.

ingot54

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Post Number: 1231
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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 08:04 am:

Always remember when you are dealing with someone who wants what you've got, YOU are the guy in orange!

Atick_em_up_cat

Keep Smiling

Trading style :CFD's predominantly. Looking for ways to enter CFD trading over long term.

tony_m

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Post Number: 580
Registered: 01-2003

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Votes: 1


Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 09:10 am:

Orangeguy,
I have been reading comments for years on the forum about a range of courses and trading systems either black or grey box etc and mostly quite expensive, some have spent as much as $20K or even $30K or more.

I cant recall a case where anyone overwhelmingly thought it money well spent in hindsight, at least in the context of the exercise culminating with a working profitable system. Of course any exposure to market information probably adds incrementally to the store of knowledge and isn't necessarily all bad.

However, maybe a few well chosen books and some much cheaper seminars like those run by Chris Tate, Alan Hull and Daryl Guppy etc might just do the same job at a cost of a few hundred dollars.

A lot depends on what sort of trading you plan to do. For example if you are working from a small capital base there is a tendency to be drawn to the riskier end of the trading spectrum i.e. trading short term with leverage. The odds are that you have a 90% chance or so of losing your stake, particularly now with the market becoming increasingly volatile as it is nearing some sort of top.

The other end of the spectrum is medium/longer term trend trading, i.e. being satisfied taking bites out established longer term trends, long or short. This creates a different problem in that it requires a bit more capital as I think it works better with a portfolio rather than one or two stocks.

There is some work going on in the forum to try and longer term trade with leverage, in this case CFD's with a small number of stocks but that is a work in progress.

The main aim in my opinion is to get into the markets and get some experience whilst not losing your shirt in the process. Therefore it is tempting to go buy a trading system because it has a prescription built in hence the course you now contemplate.

However you might want to look at something like Alan Hull's system which is very prescriptive, is free on his website http://www.alanhull.com/download/Active_Investing_0312_com.pdf with his course notes or you can buy his books in most trading bookstores and if you want his newsletter which is not expensive, maybe $400 PA. He does run courses as well.

That is how I started out although I have since evolved my own variation and haven't bought the newsletter for a couple of years now. I am not trying to flog Alan Hull's stuff and I have no association with him but in my case it got me into the markets, I made money from day one and I was a rank amateur at the time.

The reason I intially looked at Alan Hull was because someone on the forum recommended it to me.

Similarly there was a former prolific poster on the forum 'Snifter' who also had a Weinstein like (as is the Hull process) weekly trend trading process which is worth a look and you can find this at http://forum.incrediblecharts.com/messages/12/333776.html

Hope this helps or at least doesn't confuse you further...Tony_M

orangeguy

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Post Number: 55
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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 10:42 am:

Ingot,

@ picture.

Tony, thanks for you recommendation and I will have a look at Alan Hull. Can you give me a brief overview on his Active Investing strategy? Another recommendation I got was Jim Berg, his home study course costs $550. Is he any good?

I have been trading just over 2 years and have been building my capital base using a medium term strategy through CFD's. I'm looking to develop a short term trading system (though not as short as day trading) as I think this matches my style. At this point of my life I actually prefer to sit in front of the computer looking for potential trades although this may change some time down the track.

I have read a few books, namely books by Weinstein and Bedford. Found them to be useful but I will have a look at buying those books by Hull and Guppy.

tony_m

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Post Number: 581
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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:38 am:

Sounds like you are well on your way already. I didn't realise you had been at it for a couple of years.

I cant help with short term stuff, not my patch but good luck anyway...Tony

pancho

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 12:30 pm:

Hi orangeguy . Check books out by W.d.Gann "How two make profits in commodities", the other by Robert d Edwards and John Magee" Technical analysis of stock trends".

medicine06

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Post Number: 2
Registered: 03-2006

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:34 am:

Thank you ingot and tony, the information you post is very useful for people like my self.

In 1999 I went a very famous broker firm and lost over 100 thousand dollars ( I also paid them in high charge fees). Then in 2003 with out any knowledge of market I am foolish enough to listen to someone's tip and loos another 50 thousand dollars.

After having lost part of my capital, I spend quite amount money and time went to trading courses and reading books, but in my experience this incrediblecharts forums is the best teacher overall. Ingot you are right " I guarantee you would be profitable after 3 hours with someone like Tony_M, Peter1, Spider, Justice, Stickman, Stevo, and on and on. That leaves a lot of change for you to invest". I have reding this forums messages for some years, most people in this forum are very experienced, high quality warmhearted and generous to share they knowledges to many of us. I believe that many people learnt a lot from you, I just want to say thank you very much to you all.

Excuse of my poor English it is not my first language.

Good trading to all.
M

tony_m

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 05:40 pm:

Orangeguy and Medicine06,
re the brief overview of the Hull system it is basically pretty simple and better for you to read the downloadable course notes which are quite comprehensive. It all makes sense when you read the material which includes stock selection, money management, sector exposure, risk management and entry/exit criteria.

The Snifter process is pretty good in its own right as a trading system on a stock by stock basis but you need much more in the area of money management, stock selection, portfolio/sector allocation, and risk management. If you execute these latter factors properly and in a disciplined way it is difficult to lose money from my experience provided the market conditions are ok.

In any system no matter how prescriptive, there are some subjective elements that still need to be mastered and this comes with experience. The main trick is to get the exposure to build the experience level in the least risky fashion and that is why I started out with the weekly trend trading or as some call it 'buying dips in uptrends'.

Some people paper trade but in the end it takes real trading to really garner the necessary knowledge that paper trading simply cant recreate. Good luck and feel free to ask questions, I will help if I can ....Tony

smallworld

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Thursday, March 23, 2006 - 11:33 pm:

OrangeGuy,
One of my friend has been a long time member of the Hometrader, way before Jason and his crowd has bought into the company. I've been to a few of their evenings as guests and have been shown a few of their systems. Their approach is to focus on developing mechanical systems. I trade systems myself and from my evaluation, their approach is sound, though their charges might not be. I have tested some of their systems, they do provide you with a positive expectancy based on backtesting results. I dont think they are scam and you certainly learn a systematic way of trading vs discretionary style that are mostly on this board. Having said that, you probably could learn all that with much less cost if you are determined and resourceful. The advantage is that home trade gives you a course to follow upto intermediate stage of competency.
So by all means go along to their intros and before you go, make up a list of questions before you go. If you currently have some ideas about systems, then may be you already have a lot of questions. if not, trying getting a book on developing systems. such as Beyond technical analysis by Chande( not sure of spelling?) to work out what you need. The main thing is to work out what you want out of going to the course, and then evaluate what they can provide versus other alternatives. And dont let others put you off.
Good luck
SW

orangeguy

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Saturday, March 25, 2006 - 09:54 pm: