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     smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 397
Registered: 01-2004Rating: 
Votes: 2
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| | Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 09:03 pm: |  
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I got the idea to have a separate thread on this topic from lafee post here http://www.incrediblecharts.com/userscripts/forums/show.plx?tpc=11&post=90251#POST90251.
Brett Steenbarger suggests in this article that highly successful individuals are distinguished by the amount of time they spend in intense, deliberative practice as well as being unusually productive. So it is about the will to spend time in one's craft and aiming to do the right things rather than doing it right all the time.
It is not uncommon for many of us to spend many hours a day in our craft, but it is much rarer to be productive most of the time. We spend hours reading emails, visit this forum - doing whatever that we feel comfortable with, rather than what we plan (if we have one).
So how can we be more productive? Bruce Babcock offered some insights in http://www.rb-trading.com/article11.html titled the seven habits of highly effective future traders.
On a personal note, I know what I know, I also know of things I dont know so I can concentrate on acquiring those skills. But the hardest part is deal with what I dont know what I dont know (my blind spot). Luckily, this area is not totally obscure to us, it is just that often we dont want to see it for what it is.
Also, something that I posted before:
http://www.incrediblecharts.com/userscripts/forums/show.plx?tpc=11&post=59156#POST59156
For those who are hell bend in debating the truth or falsehood of what is said, justifying the position of either reality or illusion. I would like to offer What Albert Einstein once said
"Physical concepts are free creations of the human mind, and are not, however it may seem, uniquely determined by the external world. In our endeavour to understand reality we are somewhat like a man trying to understand the mechanism of a closed watch. He sees the face and the moving hands, even hears its ticking, but he has no way of opening the case. If he is ingenious he may form some picture of a mechanism which could be responsible for all the things he observes, but he may never be quite sure his picture is the only one which could explain his observations. He will never be able to compare his picture with the real mechanism and he cannot even imagine the possibility of the meaning of such a comparison. (Einstein and Infeld, 1967: 31)
What is said, no matter how rigorous, no matter how well they may work, do not explain reality as though it were independent of the observer that describes it. If what is said motivates you or you think you might like to add to it. I would like to hear from you. If it doesnt work for you, and you have found something else, I would like to hear from you also. But if you believe only your answer is correct and nobody elses is, then I dont want to hear from you.
(Message edited by smallworld on April 02, 2006)
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1272
Registered: 05-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, April 02, 2006 - 09:20 pm: |
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SW -
What a great post. I cannot reply just yet, without really absorbing the essence of all the material.
I just want to say that potentially I will find this thread very helpful, given the number of hours I spend "researching" but in fact my wife has it in a more honest approach - "Chit-Chatting."
Yes, I do spend (?waste) considerable hours at the screen, reading, contributing, thinking, and trying to scrape together a winning strategy. The truth is, I already have enough info to achieve this, and so do, I suspect, most readers here.
Then why do I sit here, day after day, before and after work, (and even out of hours) waiting for the next morsel to appear on the threads I follow?
Good stuff - Thank you for the thread.
Keep Smiling
Trading style :CFD's predominantly. Looking for ways to enter CFD trading over long term.
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davkell
Member
Username: davkell
Post Number: 396
Registered: 07-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, April 03, 2006 - 11:21 pm: |
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So true.
Pull the trigger, trade!
A quote from the movie "Executive Decision" starring Kurt Russell: "Just fly the plane!" I think it means that you need to put in the time and effort to study & practice the art of flying, but there comes a point when you have to trust yourself and "just fly the plane" or just trade the damn market!
"Trade Your Way To Financial Freedom" - Van K Tharp
"Manage the downside; the upside will take care of itself" - Donald Trump
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dutchdanish
Member
Username: dutchdanish
Post Number: 15
Registered: 10-2005Rating:
Votes: 1
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| | Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
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Excellent post, smallworld. I, like ignot, will probaly have to read through the material presented at least a couple more times before I can fully contribute. I will however post my initial reaction to the content.
Practice makes perfect...but how does a trader practice? Paper trading won't do it. It may help me with my strategies/entries/exits/etc, but as far as psychologically and emotionally, paper trading just doesn't cut it for me. So, it seems that the only way for a trader to "practice" is to play the game itself...with money at risk.
For most, this is very difficult. The risk is too great, the reward too elusive, and the path too narrow. All the while, the goal (the goal of successful trading) stands over the trader mocking him/her with every mistake he/she makes. "I've lost 25% of my capital, that means I must profit 33% of my current funds just to BREAK EVEN."
The trader begins to think, "I've got to find a better way, a way of less risk." And so we begin our seemingly endless quest for knowledge about the market. We learn 137 different strategies... We study Dow, Weinstein, Gann, Elliot, Wilder, and Buffet.
"Now I've got it." The trader thinks, "Follow the trend, simple as that."
Then comes slippage, commissions, shakeouts, reversals and false breakouts. We analyze, "I should've noticed that the volume was slightly less than average." We rack our brains trying to find out why support was broken, "I should've noticed the inverted hammer on the weekly chart..." At this point fear begins to set in. "Does technical analysis even work? It has for others...maybe I'm just not cut out for it."
Here is where the ones bound for success are revealed. It is shown right here in this place that success belongs to the persistant, the diligant...the never-quitters. We keep on risking, keep on failing, keep on correcting, KNOWING that our PRACTICE will pay off.
In only 6 months time on the market I have seen and felt all of this. I have questioned every lesson that I have ever learned along the way. I've survived 6 months of trading, or should I say practice, and I'm still left with one of the very first quotes I ever read when I began this quest to reach my goal of succesful trading:
“Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence.
Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful people with talent.
Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb.
Education will not; the world is full of educated derelicts.
Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent.”
-Calvin Coolidge.
"...yet with how many things are we upon the brink of becoming acquainted, if cowardice or carelessness did not restrain our inquiries."
--M. Shelley
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lafee
Member
Username: lafee
Post Number: 217
Registered: 04-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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You guys might want to have a read of Mark Cook's story in 'stock market wizards' by Jack D. Schwager
Laffee.
If nobody can be certain of anything, how can I be certain of that?
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peterloh
Member
Username: peterloh
Post Number: 1669
Registered: 03-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, April 04, 2006 - 01:37 pm: |
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Hi guys, an excellent thread and good all round discussion.
Watching with admiration.
-------------------------------------------------
Disclaimer: Please note that comments made in this column is mainly for the interpretation of charts in technical analysis. It is not made in my professional capacity and should not be taken as advice.In my professional capacity I am only allowed to give advice on certain managed funds authorised by my license dealer.Any share discuss is for general interest and should not be relied on to make an investment decision.It is likely that I may own the shares that we discussed as a trade or as an investment. Please consult your stock broker or financial adviser in regard to your personal situation.
The views expressed here contain information derived from public available sources that has not been independently verified.No representation or warranty is made as to the accuracy, completeness or reliability of the information.Any forward looking information in this representation has been prepared on the basis of a number of assumptions which may prove to be incorrect.It should not be relied upon as a recommendation or forecast by the writer.
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smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 417
Registered: 01-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, April 25, 2006 - 01:05 pm: |
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I thought this thread was lost amongst the hard disk crash and to my surprise I found it again this morning. A job well done Colin and Robin.
Dutchdanish - "but how does a trader practice" Thats a great question. it is also incredibly hard to answer. We can discuss the practical things that we can do here and we will but ultimately it is what we think of ourselves and we think of the realty that will determine our success.
Lets start with the easy ones. Like sports, I would consider practice to consist of learning, training and competing. some of the goals that we can practice towards are (1) to form the habits of the highly successful futures traders and (2) to climb higher on the ladder of the 38 steps as in my first posts. In addition, to be serious about our practice, we need to PLAN OUR WORK AND WORK OUR PLAN. We document our plan and we document our progress.
And if you think all this planning and documenting sounds all too complicated and unnecessary. Then you have arrived at the difficult part. Even if everyone chooses to practice, only few will succeed. As Albert Einstein said that reality is a free creations of the human mind, and are not uniquely determined by the external world, if anyone thinks the practice is too hard, or planning and documenting is unnecessary or too complicated. then it becomes his reality and he is unlikely to take it on.
I am often faced with the reality that I dont have enough time and thats why I dont practice. But determined not being stopped, I look for an inspiration that is stronger the reality of not having enough time and I will not give in.
In summary, Practice includes intense learning, training and competing. We look to emanate the habits of successful traders and we keep aiming higher on the 38 steps to become successful. Realities are only free creations of human mind, and it can be adjusted, changed or superceded by a more powerful one. And to put it in Ari Kiev's Language on p289 of the stock market wizard - the mind of a winner.
1. Believing makes it possible.
2. To achieve a goal, you not only have to believe it is possible, but you also have to commit to achieve it.
3. A commitment that promises the goal to others is more powerful than commitment made to yourself.
4. Extraordinary performers continually refine their goals so they are a sketch. Maintaining exceptional performance requires leaving the comfort zone.
5. After setting a goal, the trader needs to define a strategy that is consistent with the target.
6. Traders need to monitor their performance to make sure they are on track with their target and to diagnose what is holding them back if they are not.
I am writing this down as I search for an answer on Dutch's question.
Be prosperus
SW
PS. Practice not just on trading but also one's ability to adjust, refined and supercede one's reality with a more powerful one to keep one's going.
(Message edited by smallworld on April 25, 2006)
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smallworld
Member
Username: smallworld
Post Number: 448
Registered: 01-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, May 23, 2006 - 11:23 pm: |
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thanks to zoro to woodie's site
I believe Brett raises some very interesting suggestions regarding deliberative practice.
http://www.woodiescciclub.com/Lectures/drbrett/drbrett-april2006.html
good luck to those who are on this journey.
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