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     dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2828
Registered: 07-2005
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| | Friday, January 25, 2008 - 09:36 am: |  
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Cat_Lady has provided an article by no lesser "Authority" than Mr Alan Kohler[aka Coker] that All Shares are now Shortable,at least Theoretically.
pse brought this point up but was hounded out of this Forum.
Should the Rules of the Weekly Comp be adjusted?
Note that the Borrowing of Shares can be up to Twelve Months!!
http://www.businessspectator.com.au/bs.nsf/Article/Short-and-curly-B5QUW?OpenDoc ument
Even 'til Jaded.
Dig for the sake of it.
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2829
Registered: 07-2005
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| | Friday, January 25, 2008 - 09:51 am: |
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If you have been following the MAK thread in Short Term Topic where Charles and Ken stated that as Premium Clients with Commsec they often had their Buys/Sells marked as TX ie TRANSFERS?
well,this article sure indicates Where Commsec is/maybe Transferring these Transactions from-Their Custodial Portfolios!!
pretty tricky,hey?
Even 'til Jaded.
Dig for the sake of it.
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resillent1
Member
Username: resillent1
Post Number: 342
Registered: 10-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, January 25, 2008 - 11:21 am: |
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Dug
Commsec has the largest customer base. When you place orders through them on the net or through protarder etc. you are using their “automated client order processing” (ACOP).
There are exemptions to the standard crossing rules that allow orders placed through an ACOP system with the same broker to be matched on price by the trading platform even if they are not at the head of the SEATS queue.
Trades will be shown with the condition code XT
It is nothing to do with whether the stock has been lent and defiantly nothing to do with client status, in fact if the broker is aware of your trade than the more stringent crossing rules apply.
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2833
Registered: 07-2005
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| | Friday, January 25, 2008 - 11:38 am: |
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thanks resillent 1.
especially for raising up from Daily Bread to put me straight.
I still think these Custodial Moves,explained in the above Article have some Rort/"Conspiracy" angle involved.
Oh it's Legal.What d'BigBoys do often is.It's just so when things happen beyond their Imagination and the small get "damaged",They come the "Not our Fault"etc blah.
cheers.
Even 'til Jaded.
Dig for the sake of it.
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cat_lady
Member
Username: cat_lady
Post Number: 412
Registered: 10-2006
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Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 05:36 pm: |
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Dug
you read the interview with Bob Elstone in the weekend AFR on shorting?
he reckons there's a gap in regulations which allows "enormous trade in shares slyly executed through a confusion of margin lending, stock borrowing and short selling, a daisy chain that avoids official monitoring" and this gap needs to be filled - doh.
he aint exactly against shorting, but the stock lending followed by shorting which is the problem.
Not a bad article all up, added to my knowledge base at any rate.
cat lady
Without my morning coffee I might as well be a dog
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 2998
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 05:53 pm: |
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Ahoy Cat Lady
You are correct in one respect only
As a paper trader you can short anything
As a real trader you need someone to take the bet against you or at least hold the Bet/Debt
Have you ever tried to short anything outside the ASX200 for a $ for $ basis?
Salute and Gods speed
(Message edited by Captain_Chaza on February 10, 2008)
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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cat_lady
Member
Username: cat_lady
Post Number: 414
Registered: 10-2006
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 06:20 pm: |
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somewhat confused by your post captain.
I didn't make any statement which could be defined as correct or incorrect. I was quoting the head of the ASX who was lamenting the lack of regulation on various practices such as stock lending followed by shorting.
Last time I looked I fell out of the criteria of deep pocketed market players and hedge funds who undertake this practice so shorting anything anywhere whether it be in or out of the ASX200 isn't, well, something I'd do. Also as I haven't got a clue how to short a stock in the first place you can rule me out as a paper trader in this respect, or any other for that matter.
I am, however, interested in the market mechanisms, if only from an intellectual viewpoint, to discuss at all the bar-b-qs I attend to big note myself (irony alert).
Notwithstanding the above, for your general information the practice of "lending" shares then shorting them generally happens on companies that have little turnover, tis a practice popular with said deep pockets and hedgies. I do not know whether this happens within or without the ASX200 and will leave it to others, better informed than I, to judge the merit of your final point.
cat lady
Without my morning coffee I might as well be a dog
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 3000
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 07:09 pm: |
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Ahoy Cat Lady
I was only pointing out the Invalid Premise of this thread's Headline and expose the author for what he's really worth
Sometimes you just get sick of being kicked in the teeth in threads you seldom visit!
I have been accused of the missing Holy-Cow to a pse on all sorts of threads
I can swear to you and everyone I had nothing to do with their disappearances
"They left here on their own accord" and who here can deny anyone this simple right of Free choice?
Do yourself a favour Cat-Lady and read between all the lines he writes
You will see a sickness unimaginable in its severity
Talk about the Tall-Poppy Syndrome/Tall-Poppy Sickness?
Salute and Gods' speed
PS Are you sure you don't have to be "Lent the Stock" First
IE: Before it is shorted?
This makes a lot of difference!
(Message edited by Captain_Chaza on February 10, 2008)
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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resillent1
Member
Username: resillent1
Post Number: 356
Registered: 10-2006Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 08:38 pm: |
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cat lady
If you are interested in learning more about security lending than this site may be useful. Also brokers that offer security lending for shorting have info on their sites.
http://www.asla.com.au/
What has me perplexed about lending to short sellers is why people (I guess it's predominantly trustees of large superannuation/managed funds) lend their holdings to facilitate a practice that potentially has a negative effect on their long holdings. Maybe the income from this practice is greater than the cost of offsetting option positions.
Lending to avoid the uptick rule when short selling is legal for now but outside the “spirit” of the short selling rules, the practice may not survive for that long. Bob Elstone looks determined to rattle the legislators cages on the issue, I wonder if he will succeed or whether it will take a postmortem to identify, blame and eliminate the practice.
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captain_chaza
Member
Username: captain_chaza
Post Number: 3001
Registered: 02-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 09:01 pm: |
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Crikey! TRISTAR Who?
It's now been 34 years since one of my brokers went broke
and THEY promised it wouldn't happen again!!
My problem is that I can't remember who made that Promise
Can anybody remember?
Salute and Gods' speed
"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.
"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893
"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897
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cat_lady
Member
Username: cat_lady
Post Number: 416
Registered: 10-2006
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, February 10, 2008 - 09:27 pm: |
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I think it was the same lot who said that listed property trusts were safe as houses.
cat lady
Without my morning coffee I might as well be a dog
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2880
Registered: 07-2005
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Votes: 0
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| | Monday, February 11, 2008 - 09:35 am: |
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Chuck,
It was only by my auspices that you weren't put on suspension and time delay for that "character ANALysis" in HC's thread the other night.I didn't want to generate one of your Insincere Apologies,all piffle and self publicity for who knows what purpose.
As for your accusations against Ody the other day about being Verbose? Gee what about your Three Book Chapters that you constantly published here at least six times a year?Thousands of words a time chiefly with you as the HERO.
You should try writing some posts that don't centre on How Great you Are but you seem incapable of this.
You may have everyone else quivering in Closed Threads,heads down all afeared of attracting your ire and slurs and you may have a crew,ex crew,twittering and giggling at your weasly wiggling ways of posting TRIPE so Definitively but you should realise what a waste of time you are.
Anyhow there are now Some Brokers/Boutique ones offering shorts on shares outside the 200.What,How Often is NOT of any interest to me.
Neither is TriStar,it appears it's TRICOM for one.
Sounds sorta the same so no wonder you're Confused hey?
You're Confused about a lot of things most of the time.Maybe you should consult the Medical Profession?
but don't get confused about this-
Stay out of My Face.You're an Annoyance I don't Need.If you "dispute" anything I say?Go open your own Thread.
Go your own Way,Chuck.Go forth and Multiply ya "Wisdom".
Gezzus and YOU had the audacity to float the Concept that YOUR Voyagers were monitored by Brokers to give Clients "Tips".You're not a Tall Poppy,Charlie but a Real Daisy.
Ps- Holy Cow the "apology" can be in the least sincerity.Apologise for anything wrong you said.Use that English is your second language,whatever.Don't let this Captain Goat do d'Gloat of it's Who me?Captain KnuckleHead being Charming blather.In fact ask Colin to Remove that Whole Thread,that'll be apology enough,I hope?
Even 'til Jaded.
Dig for the sake of it.
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2881
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, February 11, 2008 - 11:25 am: | | |
