Trading structure

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cfv

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Sunday, June 29, 2008 - 10:03 am:

I am a buy and hold investor in Aus buying Aus shares. I buy shares in my name or my wife's name.

Is it better to buy long term in private name, company or trust based on the different tax and cost structures?

Is it better to short term trade in private name, company or trust based on the different tax and cost structures?

Can you establish a company or trust with separate portfolios that passes the tax office tests? ie one portfolio for long term (not necessarily super) investment and one portfolio for short term trading.

captain_chaza

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Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 08:54 pm:

Ahoy cfv

Let me be the first to Welcome you to the IC forum

As a first poster your first post is full of contradictions

"I am a buy and hold investor"

"Is it better to short term trade in private name, company or trust based on the different tax and cost structures?"

In my Honest opinion

See how well you can do in this New Financial year and how it pans out for both you and your wife and then and "Only" then look for a better Taxation vehicle to work within

Salute and Gods' speed

"While we stop and think, we often miss our opportunity." Publilius Syrus, 1st century B.C.

"I believe the future is only the past again, entered through another gate."
Sir Arthur Wing Pinero 1893

"There are two times in a man's life when he should not speculate: When he can't afford it, and when he can." Mark Twain, 1897

coyotte

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Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 09:38 pm:

cfv

regarding the business structure, would not a visit to certified accountant be more the appropriate ??

as far as separate accounts for L/T and S/T trading , i personally have Long Term with CommSec and use CFDs for short term trading -- works fine for me as i use the leverage of the CFD on a 1 to 3 ratio of the CFD account BUT never exceeding the the CASH on call accounts and/or CommSec Account .

as the Capt pointed out though , you will need a few years Trading History behind you, before looking at the business structure if ever !

cheers

This too shall change. (16th verse Tao Te Ching )

captain_chaza

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Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 10:25 pm:

Ahoy Officer Coyote

I find the most difficult task of all at sea is to determine WHICH Sail will last The Long Term

More than often I end up hoisting the Wrong Sail on the Wrong mast
If you know what I mean

In Landlubber speak
It is like putting a square peg in a round hole
If you know what I mean?

As you VERY WELL know Officer Coyote
I have always criticized/challenged those that can come up with a Medium /Long term prediction that worked

HOW can anybody see that far in advance and over so many horizon lines?

It is beyond the belief of any seaman

It is impossible to do this in my mind and IMHO those terms are only used as a form of DISCLAIMER

We can only see so far!
AND
So far NOBODY on this forum or any other forum has proved me wrong on this point in over 5 years

Crikey Mathematically speaking I am still coming to terms with the size of a Google and the Google-plex?

Good luck with your search for the Holiest of All Grails and then just double up and then Triple up and then Quadruple up as you go
OR
Better still
Just Quadruple it up at the beginning of a Long Term Trend and put it all into your Supa

Salute and Gods' speed

coyotte

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Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 11:10 pm:

i must be losing the plot here somewhere ?
just cannot seem to clearly explain what i'm getting at anymore -- if i ever could.

totally agree with you Capt about L/T Buy & Hold .

depends though what your (the trader's) definition is of Long Term --- I've been in & out of CEY since Aug 2007 -- initial buy/sell lasting near 7 months (that's LOONG TERM for me ) then in around April and out last week , again LONG term for me.

Short Term for me is a Target Trade lasting 3 to 10 trading days , which are selected using totally different critera to CEY .

as fair as the Holy Grail goes , well actually most of us have already discovered that, suspected that i had know it for decades , but it took the reading of Chris Shea's book to throw the light switch.

(Message edited by coyotte on July 03, 2008)

This too shall change. (16th verse Tao Te Ching )

captain_chaza

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Thursday, July 03, 2008 - 11:53 pm:

Ahoy Officer Coyote

I assumed cfv was talking about what was "The Best" Taxation friendly set-up for each Financial year
Starting NOW!

All I am asking is Which sail is a More than one/two year Buy and Hold Investment ATM and which ones are just a Good Buy and let's see how she goes

Crikey! It's no more difficult than Marriage
If you get it right on the first attempt she'll be around for your Supa

IMHO
If you get a Long term prospective sail wrong which should have been a short term sail we all know the consequences

It really rubs me the wrong way when I read a Short term sail incorrectly and she turns out to be a Long termer

Crikey! I could have put her in my SUPA-Ship with no Taxation for years and years to come!
If you know what I mean

(Please note that I am 6 years older than Duggie and the recent Taxation rules favour me somewhat a little more in respect to Supa)

Maybe this is another trap I should look a lot further into for myself and throw overboard a lot of those Stupid/Silly Compliance issues?

Crikey! All I want to do is go NNE or NE at worst each year

It never is the Money although it comes in handy at times!

It is simply
"The Greatest Sport of All"

Salute and Gods' speed

coyotte

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Friday, July 04, 2008 - 12:16 am:

your talking about the dilemma of the Target Trader there Capt.

Reaches Target , then carries on through higher !

Generally in that situation (only with EW W3 or a UP trending stock)I close the CFD position (interest is to high for a Long term position ) and Open a position with CommSec (no interest) with the view that i may be stuck with it for several months . -- this then brings about a different position size and trade management to suit the new situation .--- ie: we've cleared the reef and are now heading for open waters .

cheers

This too shall change. (16th verse Tao Te Ching )

captain_chaza

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Friday, July 04, 2008 - 02:21 am:

No!! No! No! Officer Coyotte

I am talking about the Mis-conception of Filthy Capital Gains against Hard Earned Honest Dollars

Salute and Gods' speed for now

PS;
It is always a great pleasure for me to talk with a Real Man of the Sea as yourself

PPS: Only we experienced Sea campaigners can really appreciate how much more we have to learn

coyotte

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Friday, July 04, 2008 - 08:16 am:

AHH CAPITAL GAIN !!!!

liken to taking a "motor sailer" out and staying within enclosed closed waters --- these lounge chair skippers need a fair wind and ample diesel , just to navigate from wharf (grog stop)to wharf (grog stop).

give me the the adventure of the ancient Polynesians and their island hopping quests --- these were the true Seamen that should set the Traders example, along with the Traders of the old Silk Road ---- very ancient and noble profession this Trading .

This too shall change. (16th verse Tao Te Ching )

cfv

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Friday, July 04, 2008 - 09:18 am:

Thanks all for the mystical references.

I think that Captan Chaza was spot on with the objective of my question.

"I assumed cfv was talking about what was "The Best" Taxation friendly set-up for each Financial year
Starting NOW!"

From what I can research it is the tax issue that is central.

Accredited accountants - hrrmph.

Without getting into details I have been investing since 1980 in two countries primarily on a long term (>2yrs) basis. I have dabbled in shorter term trading (30-90 days) with mixed success over recent years.

The portfolio in my and my wifes name is now getting large enough where I am paying too much tax (so transfer to a company etc is an issue).

All I really want to know is can one trust/company structure run a an investment portfolio and a trading portfolio. From research I guess that one trust can hold shares in two companies each respectively an investment and a trading company.

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