| Author |
Message |
     hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3097
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 08:14 am: |  
|
Many scientists are Christians
The mainstream churches long ago accepted the concept of evolution
Only the literalist (mainly American) fringe dwellers of Christianity deny the truths revealed by science
What is surprising is the extent that the Bible writers who lacked science understood the overall nature and purpose of creation and our place in it. They also had views of a vengeful God which was changed on the arrival of Christ and his teaching
"You have heard it said an eye for an eye, but I tell you to love one another" and elsewhere even to love our enemy
Thanks Ingot for printing what are acknowledged to be some of the finest parts of scripture dealing with creation and God's role in it
Those who follow their own rules are simply proposing that they are as good as, or better than, God
The results of that assumption are evident in some of the language used earlier in this thread
I know which God I prefer
Hilarius
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
|
philr
Member
Username: philr
Post Number: 269
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 08:39 am: |
|
"Those who follow their own rules are simply proposing that they are as good as, or better than, God"
If they don't believe in god how can they be better than god. Not much logic there, but then again I never could see much logic in religion anyway.
Phil
** Let blockheads read what blockheads wrote.
Warren Buffett
|
easymoney
Member
Username: easymoney
Post Number: 86
Registered: 03-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 12:47 pm: |
|
Hilarius wrote: Those who follow their own rules are simply proposing that they are as good as, or better than, God
I'd counsel you to review your belief in that statement. I assert that making up your own rules is entirely consistent with God's will. So is your attempt to impose your world view on others.
An analogy with physics is appropriate. You cannot break the laws of physics. Firing a bullet follows the laws of physics just the same whether it kills someone or not.
My view is that God's laws work the same way. They cannot be broken. Each action will have a consequence and we can do nothing to change that consequence.
The Christian crusades inevitably resulted in Muslim extremism. Christian missionaries inevitably destroyed the future of the uncivilized hordes. Western industrialisation inevitably damages the environment. It's all the same.
Just as physics laws can be exploited to destroy the earth. God's laws can be exploited for one person to destroy the lives of others.
It does not even matter whether this God we refer to exists or not. The laws of our existence and those of the universe will continue to apply without exception.
The miserable truth is that the ongoing cargo cult phenomenon that surrounds Jesus and the Bible is at best utterly futile. At worst it will destroy itself and all it touches. It is inevitable. Either way the consequences are the result of God's laws.
(Message edited by easymoney on October 25, 2007)
Two of them say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.
Industrial Disease
Dire Straits
|
hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3099
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 01:27 pm: |
|
There were no Christian crusades
The Crusaders killed many Christians on the way to Jerusalem
They were no more Christian than Pol Pot and their understanding of God's will was deeply flawed
How do we know? Their conduct was inconsistent with the teaching of Christ to love their enemy.
The laws of physics have nothing to do with the laws of moral conduct
Hilarius
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
|
philr
Member
Username: philr
Post Number: 270
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 01:59 pm: |
|
I don't see how you can say "There were no Christian crusades" like it or not the crusades were sponsored by the church and sanctioned by the pope.
Just another example of the menace of religion.
See the following extract from Wikipedia.
"The Crusades were a series of military conflicts of a religious character waged by much of Christian Europe during 1095–1291, most of which were sanctioned by the Pope in the name of Christendom.[1] The Crusades originally had the goal of recapturing Jerusalem and the sacred "Holy Land" from Muslim rule and were originally launched in response to a call from the Eastern Orthodox Byzantine Empire for help against the expansion of the Muslim Seljuk Turks into Anatolia."
Phil
** Let blockheads read what blockheads wrote.
Warren Buffett
|
dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2454
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 03:17 pm: |
|
philr,
hilario won't tell it like this but you're talking Roman Catholic and he and ingot are Protestants.
Along with the Evangelicals,Proddo's despise the Roman Catholics.See them as Idolotors or some danged thing and in their heart of hearts expect the Rapture to smote the Catholics as heretics.
So even though the Great Schism was centuries ago,the "papists" are still the Enemy.Must be dismissed,taken out because otherwise they [d'prots] miss out on claiming historical connenctions back to Jesus who really existed,said to have built his Church on the ROCK,Peter the FIRST POPE.
it goes on and on,philr.Try and let them wear themselves out,don't contribute to this Bible Class Fiasco.
cos phil,I can tell you a beauty of christian thought sophistry.
The Word they're coming up with now includes that-
We are Positive towards the Jews.Christians never supported the pogroms,holocaust and certainly embrace the Jews as Decent etc just a bit misguided etc.
AND the clincher to their Argument of this Righteosness is of course in what the Bible says.
That God will descend from the Heavens when the Jew is CONVERTED.
so you see,they have to keep at least some Jews alive so they can get Converted!!so the Rapture happens!!
it's also a handy out from the redneck,neo nazi,evangelical views.
it's all so sad,phil.Useless.Let d'Holy Joes go.
what share/sector are you over at the mo,phil?
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
|
easymoney
Member
Username: easymoney
Post Number: 87
Registered: 03-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 03:29 pm: |
|
Hilarius: There were no Christian crusades
Yet more illogical rhetoric. You excel yourself.
All Christians understand God's will. Crusaders doesn't understand God's will. Therefore Crusaders are not Christian.
All cats have 4 legs. Fluffy has 3 legs. Therefore fluffy is not a cat.
Can you spot the problem? Would you like to have another go at this argument?
Hilarius wrote: The laws of physics have nothing to do with the laws of moral conduct
Think harder. Your God allows his laws of moral conduct either be followed or not. My God's laws of moral conduct are unbreakable. Your God's laws are unknowable by mere mortals unless they read a particular book. My God's laws apply to every action of every person on every day and manifest themselves in the consequences, even if the people don't know what the laws are or whether they are breaking them.
Which sounds more like God's will to you?
Two of them say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.
Industrial Disease
Dire Straits
|
hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3100
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 04:48 pm: |
|
I repeat the crusades were not Christian and the Pope's authorisation in medieval times does not make them so
Contrary to Dug's statement I do not despise the Roman Catholics, nor do I regard them as heretics
I have happily attended Catholic services
Furthermore I do indeed believe that Peter was the one entrusted with the foundation of the Church and I regret all Schisms
Christians are positive towards everyone, Jews included. No true Christian ever supported pogroms or the holocaust.
Hilarius
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
|
easymoney
Member
Username: easymoney
Post Number: 88
Registered: 03-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 04:57 pm: |
|
...and denial is not a river in Africa!
Two of them say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.
Industrial Disease
Dire Straits
|
ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1964
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 08:05 pm: |
|
Hilarius ... this is why I decided not to participate further - the decent and good things about the Christian Faith and the Christian Life are not being honoured or served well here.
You will not convert anyone through public debate - the ego is stronger than the spirit because of pride.
A man will not come humbly and remorsefully to God until he is ready, and that will only happen when he comes to the end of himself - when human ideas, efforts, plans ingenuity and so on are exhausted.
It is hard to tell someone who is on top of his world that he has a need.
But it is great to know that Dug is reading the Bible - even though he is just reading excerpts on this thread. Fantastic Dug ... read on!
One of the points lost on Philr and Easymoney is the difference between NOMINAL Christians (ie paper trading Christians) and SPIRITUAL Christians (ie live traders, who live their belief, not just spruik it).
True Christians will not harm another person. They pray for others, show kindness, love, promote peace, show tolerance and longsuffering. And they are glad to shine their light - not for and of themselves, but for the glory and exaltation of the God they love and trust.
This is the light - that Jesus came into the world to show people a better way, salvation, and true spiritual empowerment, and so much more.
Jimdene wants to have his question answered - I believe it has been, and so the thread should be at an end.
Keep Smiling - Don't look back
Trading style: Chartist Artist _ Breakouts and Shakeouts.
|
easymoney
Member
Username: easymoney
Post Number: 89
Registered: 03-2005Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 11:14 pm: |
|
Ingot54 wrote: One of the points lost on Philr and Easymoney is the difference between NOMINAL Christians (ie paper trading Christians) and SPIRITUAL Christians (ie live traders, who live their belief, not just spruik it).
Do you understand how utterly condescending those words are?
I simply take exception to the poor logic and rhetoric that is spouted in God's name. Fancy declaring somebody not to be a "true Christian".
Something about not judging others comes to mind!
(Message edited by easymoney on October 25, 2007)
Two of them say they're Jesus.
One of them must be wrong.
Industrial Disease
Dire Straits
|
hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3101
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
| | Friday, October 26, 2007 - 12:06 am: |
|
Easy Money
It bothers me not the slightest to identify a medieval crusading murderer as just that, and certainly not Christian
No modern mainstream Christian would accept the murderous actions of such medieval zealots as being in any way Christian
The Crusaders are useful only as straw man targets for those who have an axe to grind against Christianity, and as clear examples of what being a Christian does NOT mean.
Anyone who thinks Christians have a licence to kill has certainly not understood the teachings of Christ
Hilarius
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
|
ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1965
Registered: 05-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
|
