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     dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2486
Registered: 07-2005
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Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 12:07 pm: |  
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The development of the Under Class in Modern Australia is one of the most serious Life Destroying Threats happening today.Climate Change is a Real Whooz out in Comparison.
So I'm opening this thread so it can be discussed but please can we leave the Bible out of it?No Christ said.. so we do this etc palaver.Let's just assume we all know and agree that Christianity is A way but it's been tried,seems to have failed and more "practical" means are to be pursued.
Now,I can't launch into a long post right now giving some topical views to kick this off but let's just say my opinion is that a lot of what appears Fascist,Civil Liberty Destroying Action seems to be what's brewing as a Solution AND I'm not so much against such Action.
regards.
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2487
Registered: 07-2005
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Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 01:14 pm: |
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The First Thing that'd be completely Useless is some Drug Menace Crusade by your Government.As a major/only Response.
It's too easy to identify drugs,demonise all users,virtually decree
You're Worthless because of drugs so we'll make you give them up and Voila! the problem is Solved.
I didn't see Denton last night,only the last 5mins.Some Respectable,gone the hard route,lost the Glam Life and is better for it. Was that the Gist/POV put?
Anyway Campaigns against Drugs are only a minor "solution",a sop put out by 3 year term politicians of Something MUST be Done but we won't spend much money on it,just hear what we say,constituents and only d'dreaded druggies will complain.
Neither do I want to start some generational discussions on Drugs,OK? Yes they destroy and there has to be Controls put in place.
What's stirring me to open this thread is how Governments are on a course to take the New Aboriginal Social Action Initiatives and Apply these to the Ferals and the Ferals are now at least Three Generational Born and Bred.
It won't be too long maybe less than 20 years and everyone's Age Group will include ferals.
Ferals are someone's Grand Parent Now!
So No One will be able to mutter "it didn't happen in my day"and cop out by setting d'pigs on 'em as the response.
gotta go.
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2489
Registered: 07-2005
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Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 03:37 pm: |
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Suppose by dismissing the Christians and barring the Drug Menace,I've culled any likely participation by many on this thread?Sorry,gone autocratic a bit in my dotage.
Anyhow,what I see as a future threat is the politicizing of the Ferals,a re-run French Revolution sort of thing but more Global.
but such things never happen in Australia,hey?
Our ferals are Life by the beach,right? In comparison,to most places ferals are living pretty sweet.Don't ya reckon,our Ferals must be the best set-up,got only themselves to blame? Couldn't give a root for Revolution.
Cobbers the Revolution will commence as a Fad.
later...
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
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hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3129
Registered: 04-2004
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| | Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 04:46 pm: |
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Dug I ask these questions not as a back door way to bring in religion ... but for purely practical reasons :-
(1) Why does a person become a feral (if they weren't always one)?
(2) What is your definition of a feral?
I would get nearer to doing something useful if I knew why people become and stay feral
Are there ex ferals who can say what changed them from being feral?
Maybe they just don't want to change in some cases so should we worry?
This is far from typical but there used to be a story going the rounds of brokers offices in Sydney of a derelict who lived in a cave near the Harbour Bridge
He was very unapproachable but it was finally discovered he ventured from his cave each day to buy the Sydney Morning Herald which he would study from the luxury of a park bench before phoning his broker with the day's orders
His derelict appearance never changed and he talked to no one. When he died he was discovered to have a million pound portfolio of blue chip stocks
And that was when a pound actually bought something
A journalist is reported to have found him and bravely asked the secret of his success. The derelict responded "low overheads" + "few needs" + "low operating costs
The newspapers doubled as blankets in winter
I think there is a message there somewhere, but I don't think it is for everyone
With My Best
Hilarius
PS The story is not given to suggest that those who lack financial resources have only themselves to blame ... but it raises the interesting question ... what does a person need in order to prosper? The story indicates that one answer might be a lack of family responsibilities.
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
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coyotte
Member
Username: coyotte
Post Number: 292
Registered: 12-2002
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| | Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:32 pm: |
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Probably wrong here -- depends on what is meant by the term " under class " -- but i feel relative living standards for all of us except the fat cats have been gradually declining since the early 90s --- sure we have more STUFF, but less and less time to share this stuff with family and friends .
sort of wonder if it all started with the decline of the Japanese Economy -- Politicians claim that the rapid rise in workers conditions during the 80s was due the heavy handed thuggery of unions, well that may be so , but there appeared to me to be another major if not the main factor at play then and that was the at the time unstoppable success of Japanese Companies -- remember they where chewing up and spitting out the western companies at the time -- one of the key differences between east and west companies was the working conditions of the Japanese employee --- their companies laid it on thick and fast , everything from company childcare centers , company shares to life long employment . The western companies taking note of this and the results started to copy cat.
Then with the demise of the Japanese economy , this all came to a abrupt end in the west in the early 90s, to be replaced with the wondrous concept of "OPTIONS" for directors and upper management .
This appears to have changed the scene , back before the introduction of bonus options it was the norm for company statements to be saying that their policies was not only to enhance the shareholder's position but they were also aimed at enhancing their employees, suppliers and customers position ------ long time since I've heard anything remotely like this from a director .
The policy now seems to be all short term , for the duration of the options --- it's stuff the long term viability of the company , screw the employees, suppliers ,customers and shareholders -- the only thing that matters is the value of the options ---- and we all go along with it, -- fighting over the handful of wheat they throw to distract us chooks , whilst their sneaking out with what was our basket of eggs.
.
The "Sea of Uncertainty" is defeated by the nimble vessel "Probability", not the unwieldy vessel "Prediction".
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hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3130
Registered: 04-2004
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Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, October 30, 2007 - 10:50 pm: |
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Coyotte
Take care
Any moment now someone will accuse you of advocating ethics and morality 
Hilarius
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2491
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, October 31, 2007 - 08:29 am: |
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Feral is just a word/label.One calls oneself it,others call you it,one uses it in conversation and it is understood.
I don't use it to describe ONLY the "poor",there are many rich people who display feral tendencies and for you,Hilarius,-a feral christian would be that Little Pebble bloke[heard of him?],Moses David and the Children of God mob etc.Feral as a definition could be those who isolate or are isolated from the MainStream but then Define MainStream etc blah
Sorry,don't have much time today for posting.
but coyotte's comment about directors dropping the "let's care for the employees"is a symptom of feral but it's true,hilarius this is going to lead to morality and ethics discussion but from a libertarian,anarchical view point that hopefully will not stymie into definitions.
gotta go.back tomorrow.
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2497
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 10:44 am: |
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Rather than DEFINE who and what I'm talking about.
quote some authors or others renowned to justify my argument.
let's just chuck some preconceptions that may have formed so far,about what this tread's babble is about.
Firstly I'm not rabbiting retro as in the Sixties were Really Cool so go back there philosophically,use the dynamics of then to project the Future.
Hippies,Student Activism,Womens Lib etc blah.I'm not interested in RetroGrade.
but to Progress with this Thread,let's just accept this Hypothesis.
The 1964/74 decade is a excellent example of Society being changed.
Old Ideas DISMISSED and only the Ostropilous deny.[sophists,pharasees if you like.]
The Old GUARD had their WATCH Hijacked;
the Old Ways got Changed
and such happenings prove the premise of
How it can/will Be Again.
there is no relevance in good vs bad;evil started then blather blah.
when how the Rot set in?we're Doing it NOW
or,at least,Soon.
Like the poor,
the Ferals will always be with Us.
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
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coyotte
Member
Username: coyotte
Post Number: 297
Registered: 12-2002
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Votes: 0
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| | Thursday, November 01, 2007 - 02:36 pm: |
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Think you just closed the thread Dug
The "Sea of Uncertainty" is defeated by the nimble vessel "Probability", not the unwieldy vessel "Prediction".
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dug
Member
Username: dug
Post Number: 2507
Registered: 07-2005
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, November 02, 2007 - 02:19 pm: |
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pity that you think so,coyotte but probably just as well you told me before I'd launched into the Dialectic in my dialect!
See Hilarius' method of discussion never seems to lead to a Synthesis.Laying out definitions and such just jogs conflict that leads to why don't you respect my views palaver.
Like I have a real problem with this Forum's First Rule[if ya hadn't noticed!]but why do we have to respect everyone when they may be Proud of being stupider than we are!!
so ergo we aren't really respecting ferals' rights just patronising them and "arming" ourselves to swat them.
Ever read any Wilhelm Reich,coyotte?The Fascist Soul even Physical Characteristics of Fascists is described as Armouring but I won't waffle on.
cheers.
"I hear WHAT you say,
BUT I SEE what you DO"
Zelman Cowan 1970 Canetoad!
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hilarius
Member
Username: hilarius
Post Number: 3134
Registered: 04-2004
Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:35 pm: |
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Dug
Until we know what a feral is how can WE do anything?
Let me offer a possible definition :-
A feral is one who resists social norms and is resentful of authority and who engages in uncontrolled and unpredictable responses to issues
Do I disagree with such behaviour? Absolutely not if there is a good reason for it and no undeserved harm to others is caused
I still don't see how you can avoid some judging in discussing this ... just as you have judged me a less than desirable contributor to the discussion
You've done this without clearly stating the reasons ... I am all for synthesis ... so that can't be the reason why you feel I can't contribute
I am perfectly capable of excluding religious elements of the discussion and concentrating on the practical
Why is there a need for action anyway ? If ferals are happy where is the problem?
With Best Wishes
Hilarius
I come in peace to share my thoughts and to shine my candle light on possible long term opportunities
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philr
Member
Username: philr
Post Number: 289
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Friday, November 02, 2007 - 04:56 pm: |
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You cannot do anything about ferals. Ferals are ferals and they look after themselves.
I have not noticed a lot of ferals where I live but maybe I'm living too much of a sheltered life.
Dug
Do you see ferals as a problem or do you want to help ferals it would be more help if you explained this when you started the thread.
Phil
** Let blockheads read what blockheads wrote.
Warren Buffett
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ingot54
Member
Username: ingot54
Post Number: 1988
Registered: | |
