Archive through December 22, 2004
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     nightstalker
Member
Username: nightstalker
Post Number: 581
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, November 07, 2004 - 11:23 pm: | 
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Shawky - thanks again for doing this - wonderful job you're-a-doin' there 
I'm not sure how far back you've gone for those changes you just mentioned for my list, but the most recent changes (LNN and SLT went some time ago) are in the post above this on 23rd and 26th Oct.
However, given that a couple of weeks has now passed since then, you can keep my list as it is for now, if that's OK with everybody else, rather than make retrospective changes.
I've actually bought back into FCL anyway, and am looking at getting back into BSL if it continues to bounce.
If you wish to make the retrospective change though, before the next chart publication, feel free. The Friday I was referring to in that post was 22nd October.
Thankee kind Sir
(Message edited by nightstalker on November 08, 2004)
Regards, NightStalker
"The trend is your friend till the bend at the end"
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shawky
Member
Username: shawky
Post Number: 429
Registered: 11-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Saturday, November 20, 2004 - 08:43 pm: |
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Team
I got no definitive response from my post on the 7 Nov.
Today I attempted to update our portfolios and found that the problem with FAN/FANDB, GNS/GNSDA and now FLX persists.
If New2 and Nightstalker would kindly inform me of what has happened there I can update the charts. i.e. My EOD data for Friday did not contain results for FLX nor FANDB and GNSDA. I gather all three are in various stages of a stock split/consolidation. I could check but the idea was for players to share the burden.
regards
Shawky
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nightstalker
Member
Username: nightstalker
Post Number: 609
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 08:09 am: |
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Shawky - FLXDA is trading instead of FLX, and is a deferred settlement trade until FLX comes back on the market on 26th Nov. It is a 1:10 consolidation, so 100,000 shares at 0.27 becomes 10,000 shares at $2.70
I'm waiting to see what direction things will go before deciding whether or not to stay in FLX. Until then, could you just divide the number of shares by 10, and multiply the price by 10, and temporarily mark them as FLXDA? They closed at $2.58 on Friday.
Hope this helps
Regards, NightStalker
"The trend is your friend till the bend at the end"
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shawky
Member
Username: shawky
Post Number: 430
Registered: 11-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 09:22 am: |
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Thanks Nightstalker
The Hall OF Fames spreadsheet allows for re-generation of historical data so it is important for stock data to exist or be accounted for on each trading day. The plan was to automate chart production such that relative performance charts could be produced on a time axis (work in progress).
Therefore the appropriate action for FLX is:
11 Nov Sell FLX 0.275 52630 (last trading day for FLX closing price)
12 Nov Buy FLXDA 2.75 (first trading day for FLXDA, price converted from FLX closing price according to split)
So when FLX completes the share split please post the resulting Sell and Buy transaction for me please.
That reminds me, for Tax purposes I thought a share split or consolidation had no impact on CGT. However, I happened to read the info on CAT recently, and their 15 for 1 consolidation (to retain NASDAQ listing) would be considered as a CGT event for tax purposes in Australia.
Is it standard practice to treat a share split / consolidation as a Capital Gains Tax Event?
regards
Shawky
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nightstalker
Member
Username: nightstalker
Post Number: 610
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 07:50 pm: |
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How would that work? The end result would be the same in terms of value, wouldn't it? In fact, with FLXDA, now that they are trading in ticks only one tenth the size of what they were trading at before the consolidation, they have actually dropped in value a smidgeon. FLX closed at 0.275, as you say above, but now FLXDA are worth 2.58, which is a capital loss so far.
In a straight split or consolidation, if the end value is the same, how can it be taxed as a capital gain? Me no understandeee ...
Anybody have the accountancy expertise to enlighten on this one?
Regards, NightStalker
"The trend is your friend till the bend at the end"
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shawky
Member
Username: shawky
Post Number: 431
Registered: 11-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Sunday, November 21, 2004 - 09:03 pm: |
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Nightstalker
The transfer via a Sell/Buy was just to ensure my spreadsheet remains compatible with future enhancements. As for the tax consequences I too don't quite understand it. However, here is the excerpt from CAT Oct 12 Letter to Shareholders as posted on the ASX.
And the Hall of Fame results to date, as best time would permit me to update.
regards
Shawky
P.S. Waiting on New2 to help out with his share split/consolidations.
P.P.S. Still waiting on a verdict from the team regarding my request re OST and CPU posted on Nov 7.
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nightstalker
Member
Username: nightstalker
Post Number: 611
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 22, 2004 - 05:59 am: |
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OK - I think I see what they're saying.
In other words, in a consolidation like FLX is having, the ATO may deem me to have sold the shares I have, at whatever capital gain that might be, then buy one tenth the number and start again.
Typical ATO I guess, but in the end, it should all wash up the same - if I make more capital gain after the re-buy, it'll only be from the new buy price - the same as the price they say I sold the first lot for.
The total capital gain should be the same - unless my basic and not-very-good maths is out soemwhere...
Oh yes - and my view on your CPU and OST is that you can go ahead and backfill as you suggested. This is only an exercise after all, and in the real world, you would have noticed the changes you had, I'm sure
(Message edited by NightStalker on November 22, 2004)
Regards, NightStalker
"The trend is your friend till the bend at the end"
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mosaic1996
Member
Username: mosaic1996
Post Number: 1042
Registered: 01-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 22, 2004 - 07:43 am: |
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Hi Shawky and NS,
My understanding is that consolidations/splits do not constitute a CGT event for Oz companies in Oz.
CAT are a Delaware, USA incorporated company, so may be different rules apply. I don't know details, but I wouldn't be surprised if the event you are talking about included a move to the USA. In other words, a different company. I believe that Oz have recently introduced rollover relief so CAT may be treated differently now.
Cheers,
Mosaic
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gohard
Member
Username: gohard
Post Number: 192
Registered: 05-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 22, 2004 - 09:29 am: |
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Hi Shawky,
I concur with NS re your changes it keeps things in the perspective we had previously agreed on, you win some and loose some.
What is happening to tailend charlie????N2W
Cheers G
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new2waix
Member
Username: new2waix
Post Number: 1151
Registered: 10-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Monday, November 22, 2004 - 10:04 pm: |
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Apologies for my slow response, the following has occurred since my initial purchases:
GNS - 1 existing FAN shares = 4 new FAN shares
"The effect of the share split is that shareholders will hold four (4) ordinary shares in the Company for each share currently held.
Trading in the Company’s ordinary shares will commence on a deferred settlement basis from tomorrow, 29 October 2004, until 15 November 2004. The Company will dispatch new holding statements by no later than 12 November 2004. Trading on a normal T+3 basis will commence on 15 November 2004."
GNS - 10 existing GNS shares = 11 new GNS shares
"The proposal will have the effect of seeing shareholders hold 11 Fantastic Holdings shares for every 10 shares currently held."
Do you need more info to recalculate my portfolio?
Does this study include dividends?
Keep up the good book keeping!
..
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mosaic1996
Member
Username: mosaic1996
Post Number: 1043
Registered: 01-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Tuesday, November 23, 2004 - 06:26 am: |
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Shawky,
and what N2W meant to say.....
GNS - 1 existing GNS share becomes 4 new GNS shares
FAN - 10 existing FAN shares becomes 11 new FAN shares
Cheers,
Mosaic
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nightstalker
Member
Username: nightstalker
Post Number: 632
Registered: 04-2004Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 07:16 am: |
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Shawky - apologies for the delay, but the FLX consolidation was completed, and FLX came back on last Friday, the 26th Nov at $2.42. The last price for FLXDA was $2.50 I think.
So:
Sell FLXDA on 25th Nov for $2.50
Buy FLX on 26th Nov for $2.42
Not sure why the price is dropping following the consolidation, but it's not far from my stop.....
Regards, NightStalker
"The trend is your friend till the bend at the end"
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mosaic1996
Member
Username: mosaic1996
Post Number: 1048
Registered: 01-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 07:53 am: |
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Shawky,
Name change for one of my stocks happened on Monday.
From AYO (Amity Oil) is AZZ (Antares Energy).
NightStalker,
Personally I feel that the buy and sell should be at the same price when a share is reconstructed (split or consolidated), or more accurately when deferred delivery trading commences and ends. In other words, the system should reflect the same result as real shareholders that continue to hold.
However, if Shawky wants us to buy/sell when there is a code change, then I think that your buy/sell figures are wrong. FLX close on 25/11 was $2.39 (not $2.50) and opened on 26/11 at $2.42.
In the case of FLX I would have thought the bookkeeping would have been as follows:
a) divide the number of shares by 10 and change code from FLX to FLXDA at consolidation, and start of deferred trading
b) change the code from FLXDA to FLX at the end of deferred trading
Cheers,
Mosaic
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shawky
Member
Username: shawky
Post Number: 433
Registered: 11-2003Rating: N/A
Votes: 0
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| | Wednesday, December 01, 2004 - 08:16 am: |
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Thanks Mosaic
That is exactly how the book keeping HAS to be. Each portfolio must have the correct share codes for the End Of Day Data.
For a) and b) above each must be implemented by way of a Sell and Buy where I have been doing those trades 1 for 1, so the actual sale price is not important (I just use the closing price) as long as the buy price is equivalent.
In other words Nightstalker your sale and buy on FLXDA to FLX will be executed at $2.50.
Chart should be available in a day or so.
Mosaic, the name change is implemented in the same way. Sell AYO at $X, Buy AZZ at $X.
regards
Shawky
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