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Li Batteries

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Lithium Codefatcharlie21-Feb-18  08:35 pm
         

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bi11ybisks
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Saturday, April 23, 2016 - 11:33 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Hi,

Re Li batteries:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJrNCjVS0gk

Very interesting re protective polymers and aluminium casings. Lots of talk about metal. What metal? Not sure.

BB


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shadetreetrader
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Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 08:21 am:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Watched the video & now I know how they make a modern lithium car battery, I has bin edumakated!

The way I understand it is that the metal they're referring to is the Lithium itself, according to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium Lithium is the lightest metal & least dense solid element, amongst lots of other interesting stuff.

How would we get on without the internets, but we have to be careful, apparently we can break the internet by googling google







My posts should not be taken as stock recommendations or advice.

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bi11ybisks
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Sunday, April 24, 2016 - 10:14 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



I do love a good edumakational video! Can't help myself.....

This is an area that interests me a great deal. Energy, specifically, electrical energy.

We all need it, use it and pay top dollar for it. Some more than others.

Li batteries have been thrust into the limelight by company's like Tesla. God bless them but Li batteries have been around on a smaller scale in power tools, mobile phones, etc for quite awhile. Now they just got bigger. So what?

Li batteries have been used in some cars for about 5-6 years with a lifespan of approximately 10 years. Then what? Recycle, send to the third world or burry and forget?

Li batteries are a Class 9 DG when compared to the good old lead acid batteries which are a Class 8 DG. What the hell does that mean and why should I care?

Storage and recycling, thats why!!

http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2214993714000037

Li batteries are dangerous and people with lots of money ain't stupid. Well I don't think people with lots of money are stupid but that's a whole nother topic.... Duty of care, legal responsibility and all that.

A company called Redflow (ASX:RFX) are taking on Tesla with a totally different approach to large scale batteries. No lithium, class 8 DG and therefore more easily recycled. Any good? No idea.... They haven't sold any yet!

http://www.abc.net.au/news/2016-03-30/recyclable-solar-storage-battaries-to-take -on-giants-tesla/7284518

Batteries, smatteries....

An area that is well understood and practiced around the world is Geo Thermal technology. For some reason it is not well represented here in Australia. Why, I have no idea. We are perfectly positioned to reap its massive benefits.

IMHO the main reason most people use a lot of electrical energy is to power their energy hungry climate control systems. Air conditioning!!

When it comes to mainstream air conditioning in Australia what have you got:

1 - Refrigerated, reverse cycle (heat/cool)
2 - Gas (heat)
3 - Evaporative (cool)
4 - Wood fireplace (heat)

Apart from evaporative and maybe gas, all the others are energy/cost hungry monsters!!

A load of wood delivered (approx 1 tonne or 1 trailer load) where I live now costs over $280 and that's the cheap guy!!

I built my house from a kit with my own hands (what a hero, NOT!). The kit arrived with an instruction manual and it took me 5 months to build to lockup. Saved me a lot of money but now I'm kicking myself that I didn't discover geo thermal to heat and cool the damn thing earlier!

If I did I reckon I would be saving myself at least $1500 - $2000 dollars a year in electricity costs. We have the dreaded refrigerated reverse cycle air conditioning thing and to retrofit geo thermal is expensive. Damn!!

Enough of my rambling!

I really wanted to vent my frustration as well as possibly bring to peoples attention what I think the future in electrical energy may hold. I haven't even mentioned insulation....

Maybe I'm stating the damn obvious but from conversations I have had with many people it ain't that obvious.

Cheers

BB


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shadetreetrader
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Monday, April 25, 2016 - 09:28 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Those Redflow ZCell batteries are interesting, I like that they can be fully discharged without any problems, & I expect the price will come down as production ramps up.
I wonder how the energy density compares with Lithium, and if they can be made small & portable?

Congratulations on building your own home, we had a Kit home built for us once where I did the internal layout & positions of the doors & windows.
Best thing about that place was the 3 way hot water cylinder which ran off solar, wet back & electricity.

Current home is passive solar with wood heater and reverse cycle air conditioner.
What's this geo thermal heating/cooling system? I saw a system on Grand Designs once that ran pipes underground to & from some sort of device, it was similar to reverse cycle except that it used liquid instead of air.
Do you mainly need to heat or cool your home? I know some solar methods that use little or no electricity.
Rgds
Dave


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bi11ybisks
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Friday, April 29, 2016 - 09:42 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Yes the ZCell batteries do look interesting.

I don't think they will get very small but who knows. I remember seeing a news story, or something, some years back about car batteries using this tech. The idea being that you would pull into a servo and drain your old electrolyte and replace it with new at the bowser. Haven't heard any more about that idea until now. Electrolyte itself is interesting. From the ZBM2 Datasheet:

"Zinc-bromide electrolyte is water-based and a natural fire retardant."

Had a quick look at zinc-bromide recyclability and found Portland cement and asphalt? Only a quick look mind you....

Thanks about the house. Still going! All those annoying fiddly bits. Not sure if I would do it again....

Geothermal. You've probably already found out what that is, due to my tardiness, but the one I am talking about is not so much hot rocks, although that looks very promising, but exactly the one you have seen on Grand Designs. Pipes under the ground connected to a heat pump. Used for air conditioning, hot water, under floor heating, pools and spas. I think it is slowly, very slowly, being recognized as a real option here in Australia to solar and wind but it is still too expensive. The tech is pretty basic stuff but the businesses offering this option are too few and therefore the hefty price tag.

Where I live during winter it gets down to -2degC and summer +46degC. House is 2 storey and very well insulated but due to smoke, farmers burning off, evaporative wasn't an option. Also have a pool so pool pump/chlorinator doesn't really help the power bill. Would love a wood fire place except for the price of wood being so high.

Cheers

BB

(Message edited by bi11ybisks on April 29, 2016)


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shadetreetrader
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Saturday, April 30, 2016 - 08:45 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



"Not sure if I would do it again" That's what I said after having a builder do it for me!
I can say from current experience that the Cave principle or building partially back into a hillside works well, plus you get an ideal location for a wine cellar.

re cost of wood, if you have enough growing area plant a coppice species suitable for your climate.

I haven't tried this, but the most interesting retro fit solar heating/cooling I've seen is an external cladding of aluminium or steel siding that has micro holes all through it like those garage doors that you can see through.
It's mounted about 100mm off the side of your North facing wall.
For heating you draw in boundary layer hot air that 's been heated by the sun on the outside of the wall through the holes and into the cavity & then into the house.
In Summer you get shade on your external wall and you can vent the cavity top & bottom, it's a Canadian invention but I would think it would work anywhere

(Message edited by shadetreetrader on April 30, 2016)


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bi11ybisks
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Sunday, May 01, 2016 - 12:25 am:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



I like building, I just don't like the painful finishing bits like painting, plastering, tiling, carpeting, etc and the list goes on and on....

I like the cave idea. Use what you have on hand, if you have a handy hillside, and make the most of its ready made space and protection. This wasn't an option where we live but the area that we live in is bountiful with options. Just need to make a couple of bucks more to make it real.

We could grow our own fire wood but I have no interest or time. To me, after getting to grips with geothermal, why bother. We will probably sell and I will build exactly what I want instead of what I can afford. The ridiculous thing is that what I want to build will probably turn out cheaper than the kit I built!

Aluminium cladding? Haven't heard of that one. From what I understand, density is the key. Sounds like a trick of thermodynamics. The Canadians get all the good stuff! What's the deal??

BB


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shadetreetrader
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Monday, May 02, 2016 - 05:02 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Yes you're right density or thermal mass as it is otherwise known, is the key to home temperature comfort.
As I'm sure you know, that's what keeps you cool in Summer & warm in Winter.
But you still need a heat source that can be switched on or off.
That's where the perforated aluminium or perforated colourbond cladding comes in when fitted as previously mentioned, it's an alternative to trombe walls etc but would be more suitable for fire prone areas.
But hey, if you've going geothermal you won't need it, maybe you could do some of the pipe installation/burying yourself if you got the specifications & hired a digger, there might be some worthwhile savings?


My posts should not be taken as stock recommendations or advice.

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bi11ybisks
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Monday, May 02, 2016 - 09:29 pm:Copy highlighted text to 'New Message' boxEdit Post Delete Post Print Post    View Post/Check IP (Moderator/Admin only) Ban Poster IP (Moderator/Admin only) Move Post (Moderator/Admin Only)



Heat source, yes...

I found, somewhere, awhile ago that roughly where we live you should get a constant 24-25degC at about 3 metres depth. This temp/depth varies depending on your location, soil type, etc. I am sure I was looking at a great map which covered most of Australia. CSIRO comes to mind. Do you think I can find it again...

I drive a digger at work. Wonder if they'll notice it missing for a couple of days...

BB

(Message edited by bi11ybisks on May 02, 2016)







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scarlettsmith694
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There are so many uk lithium mining stocks available for investor and rise your investment in term of profit with booming material and mining sector space of companies.


ScarlettSmith

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